Is it the high moly content of Havoline that makes it a darker colored oil? Mobil 5000 has a bit less than Havline and it is a little bit more clear when you pour it fromt he quart container. Then Castrol and Valvoline are virutually clear and these two have little to no moly contennt at all. I've heard that some companies die their oil, and I've also heard that additives cause different color variations between the brands. Is Quarker state relatively darker as well?
Additive effect on virgin oil color
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I'm sure it is dye.
It spends most of it's time in the dark anyway so what does color matter?
Well, from what BITOG says, Havoline is hydrocracked bast II oil, yet go out and pur a 5 qt jug in your crank case, you will observe amber colored oil. Go out and pour the same 5qt size container of Castrol or Valvoline, the oil is so clear that when you pull the stick out of your engine you can barely see it.
other than specialty most majors do not use dye now days clear oil is the "bench" mark look.
Most all basestocks ester,GPII,GPIII and PAO are all clear
perhaps slight amber at most. Some like PAO and some GPIII are "Water White" meaning clear.
ZDDP is brown, Moly carbamate is dark brown/green
Calcium sulfonate neutral or overbased is Dark brown
Dispersants are amber to brown.
Boron esters are amber.
bruce
Most all basestocks ester,GPII,GPIII and PAO are all clear
perhaps slight amber at most. Some like PAO and some GPIII are "Water White" meaning clear.
ZDDP is brown, Moly carbamate is dark brown/green
Calcium sulfonate neutral or overbased is Dark brown
Dispersants are amber to brown.
Boron esters are amber.
bruce
moly and calcium additive type.
bruce
bruce
Different types/brand? of moly additives can lead to lighter/darker oil. After Katrina we saw many oils get darker due to use of a different moly additive.
Yeah, Havoline has gotten darker in general with the change of formulation. But it has indeed gotten specifically darker since katrina.
I used to think the Mobil & SuperTech dino were dark.
But the last havoline 10w30 I just used last oil change was darker.
I think it is the higer moly content, and possibly as said before maybe a different moly.
I used to think the Mobil & SuperTech dino were dark.
But the last havoline 10w30 I just used last oil change was darker.
I think it is the higer moly content, and possibly as said before maybe a different moly.
I don't buy it. The Havoline 5W20 I just put in is quite close to clear, and you simply can't even see it on the stick..
Then you have very new or very old stuff.
Very new, or very old..
oooook..
Then, if the very old, or the very new, are different from the in-between very old and very new, how do we then presuppose there's all this moly in Havoline? Or for that matter, how do we know ANY of the VOAs for any of the oils in the VOA library reflect present-day chemistry?
How does one advocate the use of ANY oil when the chemistry changes without warning or clarification from the refiner? If the process and tribology is indeed so transient and subject to change, then fact is, no one here knows what they're talking about regarding the quality or liabilities of ANY oil absent a very, VERY recent VOA..
oooook..
Then, if the very old, or the very new, are different from the in-between very old and very new, how do we then presuppose there's all this moly in Havoline? Or for that matter, how do we know ANY of the VOAs for any of the oils in the VOA library reflect present-day chemistry?
How does one advocate the use of ANY oil when the chemistry changes without warning or clarification from the refiner? If the process and tribology is indeed so transient and subject to change, then fact is, no one here knows what they're talking about regarding the quality or liabilities of ANY oil absent a very, VERY recent VOA..
""then fact is, no one here knows what they're talking about regarding the quality or liabilities of ANY oil absent a very, VERY recent VOA.."""
Correcto mundo
bruce
Correcto mundo
bruce
Let me correct above in that in regard to chemistry down to ppm and percent base stock oils varry BUT quality or perfromance does not varry much/at all within a "set" product specification per each mfg.
bruce
bruce
Unimpeachable.
To be realistic, it's not like they change formulas everyday. But the batch made today, may or may not be similar to the batch made next month or next year.
Yup, I imagine that additives are as much a commodity as base oils so things are going to change. No big deal.. Focus on performance specifications and not so much on PPM of this additive or that and you will have a minimum constant you can rely on. Havoline/Chevron, Castrol, SOPUS, CP, Exxon/ Mobil and Valvoline all make good lubricants and have quality controls. I have personally seen differnt virgin oil colors come out of differnt bottles (that were probably different blend batches) as I filled a crankcase.
Ho Hum. At this point with SM GF4 oils meeting some very high performance specs it is more productive and interesting to see how differnt engines perform than to atttempt to discern much differnce between differnt brands of oils of the same spec.
Ho Hum. At this point with SM GF4 oils meeting some very high performance specs it is more productive and interesting to see how differnt engines perform than to atttempt to discern much differnce between differnt brands of oils of the same spec.
ooops..Didn't mean to stir
And of course, I don't intend to imply that *I* know what I'm talking about, beyond the basics, but don't they owe the consumer a little more info? Look at the semi-uproar over the change (if there was one), or the "fraud" (if there was one) regarding the Pennzoil Platinum. "ALL NEW!" "Full Synthetic!". All along, they were selling feathers (GroupIII). Or switched to selling feathers (GroupIII) just when the brand got going, and said nothing, gave no indication on the bottle, the website, or advertising. For the last couple of years I've been reading here, folks thought PP was GroupV (other), but the revelation regarding a "reformulation" wasn't something folks were made aware of here until fairly recently. Surely PP's folks (no disrespect to Johnny) read here or have connections, yet as recently as a month or two back, most EVERYONE thought it was EOP or a blend with PAO. And here we discover it was GroupIII as of November 2005. No mention on the bottle of a new formula, or what it was.
Like I said, it isn't on a par with beheadings in Whackistan, or exploding Pintos, but it is a bit of a fraud, not earthshaking, but a lot more than a little white lie of omission...So where's the justice for false advertising? I know the product is good, is adequate, is whatever it is, but it ISN'T WHAT THEY PROMISED.
Promised doesn't mean much by the time the ad-guys, bean-counters and the Corporate Lawyers get done with em, do they?
Whaddya gonna doo?
And of course, I don't intend to imply that *I* know what I'm talking about, beyond the basics, but don't they owe the consumer a little more info? Look at the semi-uproar over the change (if there was one), or the "fraud" (if there was one) regarding the Pennzoil Platinum. "ALL NEW!" "Full Synthetic!". All along, they were selling feathers (GroupIII). Or switched to selling feathers (GroupIII) just when the brand got going, and said nothing, gave no indication on the bottle, the website, or advertising. For the last couple of years I've been reading here, folks thought PP was GroupV (other), but the revelation regarding a "reformulation" wasn't something folks were made aware of here until fairly recently. Surely PP's folks (no disrespect to Johnny) read here or have connections, yet as recently as a month or two back, most EVERYONE thought it was EOP or a blend with PAO. And here we discover it was GroupIII as of November 2005. No mention on the bottle of a new formula, or what it was.
Like I said, it isn't on a par with beheadings in Whackistan, or exploding Pintos, but it is a bit of a fraud, not earthshaking, but a lot more than a little white lie of omission...So where's the justice for false advertising? I know the product is good, is adequate, is whatever it is, but it ISN'T WHAT THEY PROMISED.
Promised doesn't mean much by the time the ad-guys, bean-counters and the Corporate Lawyers get done with em, do they?
Whaddya gonna doo?
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