I've got a 94 Corolla, with 88,000 miles on it now. For the short time I've had it, it's been a champ. I'm commuting 100 miles round trip to school now, so it should rack up the miles real quickly now. Hopefully it will last the longhaul. I wouldn't call it a great riding car, but for what it is, and the fact that it gets around 36-37 mpg highway, and costs me all of 20 bucks a year for registration, it can't be beat at this point in my life.
Toyota Corolla vs Honda Civic
- Thread starter mazda323
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I was the happy, ten year owner of a terrific 1988 Civic LX Sedan, but I've got to weigh in in favor of the Corolla. I'm very displeased with the evolutionary direction the Civic has taken. The newer examples just don't seem to have the same good feel as the one I had. Laugh if you will, but my 88 sort of made me think this is what BMW would have produced if they had been forced to build a FWD version of the old early 70s 2002. Low stance, flat cornering, big open "greenhouse", precise shifting, etc. It was only when you got frisky with the gas pedal that you got a quick and certain reminder that this car came from across the other ocean. The new ones just don't have this feel at all.
There's another problem, I'll call it a "social issue" with the Civics. While it has little to do with the "mechanical merits" of the car, it seems like the whole Civic identity has been hijacked by a legion of young guys intent on making what was once the premier "economy" car into a performance machine. While a very small minority of these guys actually do succeed in producing a fast Civic, most are bathtub surgeons whose malpractice results in monstrous orange, black, and purple things with hopeless whaletails and "Type-R" stickers slapped all over them that hobble-bobble down the road on frightfully misrigged suspensions, while the emanations from their fartcan mufflers assault the eardrums of everyone else. And the really scary thing is that the "patients" of these "surgeons" seem to be getting newer and newer every year.
OK, maybe that was a tad harsh. But the phenomenon is out there and can't be denied. I can only conclude that this is going to ultimately have a drastic effect on the residual value of all Civics as the image of the car moves from that of a respected teacher's car to RICER!!!. Buy with care.
There's another problem, I'll call it a "social issue" with the Civics. While it has little to do with the "mechanical merits" of the car, it seems like the whole Civic identity has been hijacked by a legion of young guys intent on making what was once the premier "economy" car into a performance machine. While a very small minority of these guys actually do succeed in producing a fast Civic, most are bathtub surgeons whose malpractice results in monstrous orange, black, and purple things with hopeless whaletails and "Type-R" stickers slapped all over them that hobble-bobble down the road on frightfully misrigged suspensions, while the emanations from their fartcan mufflers assault the eardrums of everyone else. And the really scary thing is that the "patients" of these "surgeons" seem to be getting newer and newer every year.
OK, maybe that was a tad harsh. But the phenomenon is out there and can't be denied. I can only conclude that this is going to ultimately have a drastic effect on the residual value of all Civics as the image of the car moves from that of a respected teacher's car to RICER!!!. Buy with care.
Is it perhaps a result of the poor science education in the public schools in this country that we have these kids who think that stickers, a fartcan, and a huge wing make their car faster?
Can't resist, but Labman, what say you??? Maybe the phenomenon is also a reflection of contemporary American values in which the looks like fast characteristic is more important than actually being fast?
Guys:
As the owner of an 03 civic (NOT riced!!!) I have to weigh in.
My old car was an 88 Camry v6. I got it used, it was a lemon. When shopping for my civic, I also tried the corollas and the matrix. The corollas had slightly better acceleration, maybe a bit more torque on the stickshift side.
Cons of the corolla: I didn't like the way it handled It was much higher off the ground than even the new civics, and the turning circle was very wide. I also felt that the 3 dealers I went to were screwing me over (or at least positioning themselves behind me and unzipping so that they could provide their best 'customer service')
On the civic side, it shifts smoother (to me, anyways) and the ride is better. Handling is decent, but will be better after I replace the stock firestones in about 15K with something that grips a bit better. The HP and accelleration wasn't as good as it should have been, everyone seems to be right on that one. The only other downside I can tink of is that ABS is not standard unless you get the EX for 3000 or so more than the LX/DX.
From the maintenance end, I think the civic is pretty easy to work on, save for the struts. Oil changes are pretty straightforward (Filter is pretty accessible, horizontally mounted) and changing the MTF was pretty simple. From reading the factory service manual, brakes are pretty easy as well, the usual sequence as long as you don't have the EX which has ABS. All the things the usual home mechanic would usually do are still do-able.
I'm not sure what else you want to know mazda... Just ask.
On a side note, whoever said go witht he mazda 3 is probably on to something. My roomie has a mazda 6, and it is nice. Very good power, but when I drive it, it seems squirrely in the handling dept. goes well in a straight line, but turning etc might be a bit strange.
As the owner of an 03 civic (NOT riced!!!) I have to weigh in.
My old car was an 88 Camry v6. I got it used, it was a lemon. When shopping for my civic, I also tried the corollas and the matrix. The corollas had slightly better acceleration, maybe a bit more torque on the stickshift side.
Cons of the corolla: I didn't like the way it handled It was much higher off the ground than even the new civics, and the turning circle was very wide. I also felt that the 3 dealers I went to were screwing me over (or at least positioning themselves behind me and unzipping so that they could provide their best 'customer service')
On the civic side, it shifts smoother (to me, anyways) and the ride is better. Handling is decent, but will be better after I replace the stock firestones in about 15K with something that grips a bit better. The HP and accelleration wasn't as good as it should have been, everyone seems to be right on that one. The only other downside I can tink of is that ABS is not standard unless you get the EX for 3000 or so more than the LX/DX.
From the maintenance end, I think the civic is pretty easy to work on, save for the struts. Oil changes are pretty straightforward (Filter is pretty accessible, horizontally mounted) and changing the MTF was pretty simple. From reading the factory service manual, brakes are pretty easy as well, the usual sequence as long as you don't have the EX which has ABS. All the things the usual home mechanic would usually do are still do-able.
I'm not sure what else you want to know mazda... Just ask.
On a side note, whoever said go witht he mazda 3 is probably on to something. My roomie has a mazda 6, and it is nice. Very good power, but when I drive it, it seems squirrely in the handling dept. goes well in a straight line, but turning etc might be a bit strange.
I suggest driving the Mazda 6. It outhandles virtually every car under 30k, that isn't a sports car.
Its currently a serious competitor in G stock and STS classes in Autox, and has taken multiple trophies across the US in those divisions.
...it even beats mini-cooper S's sometimes, and thats one $#@! of a good handling car.
Mazda 6's got a double wishbone front suspension with dual lower balljoints...doesn't get much better then that.
For more information on its technology, check out the suspension articles over at http://www.mazda6tech.com .
Of course I'm biased owning and racing one, but I test drove a **** of a lot of cars before buying this one...TWICE. The only car that comes close to it and exceeds it is the Legacy 2.5 GT...the matched AWD + 250 bhp STi engine + LSD is really hard to beat for that price.
Car's I test drove (some more then once) while looking for a new car (and felt were inferior to the mazda 6 given the price)...
03 Nissan Altima 3.5
04 Maxima 3.5
03 Accord V6 6sp Coupe
04 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
03 Audi A4 (Not worth an extra 10k)
03 Bmw 330ci (See above)
04 Subaru WRX (Awful nice car, but i didn't fit in it well, and its really freaking small)
03 Acura 3.2 TL Type-S (not the 04)
I seriously suggest test driving the 3 and 6. I got my 6s MTX for around 18.7k with S-plan pricing and with the rebate packages available at the time. Its nigh impossible to beat that car for that price. (IMO)
If I was buying again...I'd probably look at the Subaru Legacy GT 2.5, the Rx8, the G35 Sports Coupe, or an S2000...of course of those, on the legacy has any true practical value...and most of the others cost 5-15k more then the 6 does.
If your looking for an ATX, the 6s in 05 has the new 6sp ATX that's propogating itself across the entire form line...its supposedly one of the strongest FWD transmissions ever built. (And gets better mileage then the 5sp MTX to boot)
[ September 15, 2004, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: crossbow ]
Its currently a serious competitor in G stock and STS classes in Autox, and has taken multiple trophies across the US in those divisions.
...it even beats mini-cooper S's sometimes, and thats one $#@! of a good handling car.
Mazda 6's got a double wishbone front suspension with dual lower balljoints...doesn't get much better then that.
For more information on its technology, check out the suspension articles over at http://www.mazda6tech.com .
Of course I'm biased owning and racing one, but I test drove a **** of a lot of cars before buying this one...TWICE. The only car that comes close to it and exceeds it is the Legacy 2.5 GT...the matched AWD + 250 bhp STi engine + LSD is really hard to beat for that price.
Car's I test drove (some more then once) while looking for a new car (and felt were inferior to the mazda 6 given the price)...
03 Nissan Altima 3.5
04 Maxima 3.5
03 Accord V6 6sp Coupe
04 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
03 Audi A4 (Not worth an extra 10k)
03 Bmw 330ci (See above)
04 Subaru WRX (Awful nice car, but i didn't fit in it well, and its really freaking small)
03 Acura 3.2 TL Type-S (not the 04)
I seriously suggest test driving the 3 and 6. I got my 6s MTX for around 18.7k with S-plan pricing and with the rebate packages available at the time. Its nigh impossible to beat that car for that price. (IMO)
If I was buying again...I'd probably look at the Subaru Legacy GT 2.5, the Rx8, the G35 Sports Coupe, or an S2000...of course of those, on the legacy has any true practical value...and most of the others cost 5-15k more then the 6 does.
If your looking for an ATX, the 6s in 05 has the new 6sp ATX that's propogating itself across the entire form line...its supposedly one of the strongest FWD transmissions ever built. (And gets better mileage then the 5sp MTX to boot)
[ September 15, 2004, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: crossbow ]
It's the same one that is in the forthcoming Ford 500, correct?
Ford is due to come out with the Ford Fusion in a year which will be the Mazda 6 with a different name.
And supposedly in the upcoming (2006) V70R from volvo...it starts with an A...Aisin Warner I believe.
Here's the gearing ratios for the Mazda6's version.
1st 4.418
2nd 2.370
3rd 1.556
4th 1.155
5th 0.859
6th 0.686
Final 3.464
Here's the gearing ratios for the Mazda6's version.
1st 4.418
2nd 2.370
3rd 1.556
4th 1.155
5th 0.859
6th 0.686
Final 3.464
i've found that nothing drives as well as the small mazda3 in it's class. i'd go check one fo them out before your purchase.
what about a scion XC?
what about a scion XC?
Hehehe...this has got to be the quote of the month.
I think it's a lack of art education, too. You see, they also believe that "Yellow means fast!!!" I contend that if we had a bit more aesthetics as a culture we at least wouldn't have the visually offensive element, just the **** cannons as were mentioned before.
Mazda,
This is going to be a subjective topic. Only you can make a decision based on your requirements. If you give us more details as to what your looking for, the responses can cater more to that then the 'opinions' you have been receiving so far.
Honestly, I am biased (some say obsessed) towards Honda due to their commitment to the environment, safety (to pedestrians and other vehicle occupants) and marvel of engineering.
But I will give you my thoughts anyway...
1. Toyota's are as numbing to drive as novacane. I think they are the anesthesia of the car world. Drive a one and see for yourself.
2. The engineers at Honda, on the other hand, instill a passion for driving, even in their economy cars, like the Civic.
3. Although the Civic does not use it, look into the 'ACE' body structure that Honda just unveiled in their new Odyssey minivan. In a nutshell, this design distributes the energy of accidents into the frame more evenly to lessen the impact for passengers and passengers of the OTHER veichle involved in a impact. I don't know of ANY company to invest in R&D funds on the safety of passengers other then the occupants of their vehicle. Nothing to do with the Civic but this gives you some insight into the mindset of the Honda corporation.
I could go on but I suggest researching both cars AS WELL as the company's global design goals and philosophies before making a decision. This will give you invaluable insight when considering any vehicle.
HTH!
This is going to be a subjective topic. Only you can make a decision based on your requirements. If you give us more details as to what your looking for, the responses can cater more to that then the 'opinions' you have been receiving so far.
Honestly, I am biased (some say obsessed) towards Honda due to their commitment to the environment, safety (to pedestrians and other vehicle occupants) and marvel of engineering.
But I will give you my thoughts anyway...
1. Toyota's are as numbing to drive as novacane. I think they are the anesthesia of the car world. Drive a one and see for yourself.
2. The engineers at Honda, on the other hand, instill a passion for driving, even in their economy cars, like the Civic.
3. Although the Civic does not use it, look into the 'ACE' body structure that Honda just unveiled in their new Odyssey minivan. In a nutshell, this design distributes the energy of accidents into the frame more evenly to lessen the impact for passengers and passengers of the OTHER veichle involved in a impact. I don't know of ANY company to invest in R&D funds on the safety of passengers other then the occupants of their vehicle. Nothing to do with the Civic but this gives you some insight into the mindset of the Honda corporation.
I could go on but I suggest researching both cars AS WELL as the company's global design goals and philosophies before making a decision. This will give you invaluable insight when considering any vehicle.
HTH!
Actually as a new Camry owner I'm going to agree. And that is exactly the reason I bought it. As the owner of a Jeep, diesel pickup, and van camper I wanted good solid transportation with a minimum of "personality." While it isn't a passionate vehicle, it has few vices. It is a steady comfortable cruise @ 80 MPH, goes where you point it (at typical speeds
If you're looking for something with more edge, look elsewhere.
FWIW,
The last big Car & Driver econobox comparison test (in November 2002) rated the Mazda Protegé LX #1 ( last gen. model), the Hyundai Elantra GLS #2,Toyota Corolla LE #3, Ford Focus SE #4 and the Honda Civic #5!
For those of us who read and trust Car and Driver (I've been a faithful reader for 25 years) these results were a big deal!
The last big Car & Driver econobox comparison test (in November 2002) rated the Mazda Protegé LX #1 ( last gen. model), the Hyundai Elantra GLS #2,Toyota Corolla LE #3, Ford Focus SE #4 and the Honda Civic #5!
For those of us who read and trust Car and Driver (I've been a faithful reader for 25 years) these results were a big deal!
"ACE" now there's something I smiled at. Why? I commend Honda for this and am all for it. However, I am saddened when I know that a very large percentage of the large SUVs are purchased for the reason that they offer protection from other vehicles. Oddly the occupants of cars in this thread suffer the most in those cases.
It's all for oneself with no regard to the consequence of another....... This mentality has pervaded a nation in their vehicle buying habits and global environment and politics.
It's all for oneself with no regard to the consequence of another....... This mentality has pervaded a nation in their vehicle buying habits and global environment and politics.
They offer protection from the owner's rotten driving.
I have owned both and driven them extensivally. I didn't likr the Civic because it was to low to the ground. But other than that it was superior in every catagory I can think of. The Civic I bought had better pep transmission style and mileage do I need say more. The Corolla we drove 160000 mile and it ran as good as the day I bought it. My wife wanted a new car or I would have kept it.The Nissan pickup is 10 years old and runs perfect. Lets face it if you maintain them they will give you good service.
The most important thing about this entire thread.. is you MUST test drive all the car your looking at.
All the search, all the posts, all the research...mean nothing is you don't love the car, don't fit it well, or you just don't like the way it handles or carries itself.
Make sure to bring someone with you (to prevent overaggressive salesman) and consider setting aside multiple days to test drive a variety of vehicles your looking at. Also make sure to test vehicles a bit higher then your price range, and a bit lower as well. It helps to see (or not see) what your missing, or sometimes the cheaper cars actually fit your personality and driving style far better then the more expensive ones.
All the search, all the posts, all the research...mean nothing is you don't love the car, don't fit it well, or you just don't like the way it handles or carries itself.
Make sure to bring someone with you (to prevent overaggressive salesman) and consider setting aside multiple days to test drive a variety of vehicles your looking at. Also make sure to test vehicles a bit higher then your price range, and a bit lower as well. It helps to see (or not see) what your missing, or sometimes the cheaper cars actually fit your personality and driving style far better then the more expensive ones.
After over 20 years of VW Jetta diesels, I decided to switch. After driving them all, the Toyota Corolla came up as a clear winner. I got a 2003 Corolla S and now, 155,000km later, couldn't be happier.
Compared to a Civic, the Corolla is bigger, better, more powerful engine, gets better gas mileage and much better fit and finish.
Compared to a Civic, the Corolla is bigger, better, more powerful engine, gets better gas mileage and much better fit and finish.
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