If it's not moly that causes clutch slipping...

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Then what is it?

People have told me here that they have used oils containing 400 to 600ppm of moly and they get zero slippage. But the oil companies and bike companies tell me otherwise...what gives?!
 
different types of Moly.

The dri-lube type (MoS2) acts like dri-lube, even when it's wet, shearing across itself, and slipping your clutch.
 
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People have told me here that they have used oils containing 400 to 600ppm of moly and they get zero slippage

How do they know there is none? All they can do if offer an opinion. It could be slipping and they would not even be able to tell. Those problems could surface over time..

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Though 4-cycle motorcycle engines may be considered more similar to automobile engines than 2-stroke motorcycle engines, they still have very different performance requirements. Historically, 4-stroke motorcycles have had problems with gear pitting wear in the transmissions and clutch slippage. In many cases, this can be directly attributed to the oil used. Most automotive engine oil is developed to minimize friction and maximize fuel economy. Since the oil for many 4-stroke motorcycles is circulated not only through the engine [as with an automobile], but also through the transmission and clutch, different characteristics are required of the oil. First, a certain amount of friction is necessary to prevent clutch slippage. Second, the oil needs to prevent wear and pitting in the gears of the transmission. These and other essential characteristics are addressed in the standards developed by JASO for 4-stroke engines.

As with the 2-stroke classification, the JASO 4-stroke classification is also divided into grades, MA and MB. MB is lower friction oil, while MA is relatively higher friction oil. Other than friction, the JASO 4-stroke classification tests for five other physicochemical properties: sulfated ash, evaporative loss, foaming tendency, shear stability, and high temperature high shear viscosity (HTHS). Sulfated ash can cause pre-ignition if the oil is present in the combustion chamber. It can also contribute to deposits above the piston rings and subsequent valve leakage. Evaporative loss and foaming reduce the amount of lubrication and protection in the transmission, engine, and clutch. With less shear stability, oil loses its capability of retaining original viscosity resulting in increased metal-to-metal contact and wear. High temperature high shear viscosity tests provide viscosity characteristics and data under severe temperature and shear environments.


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4. Energy Conserving: The “Energy Conserving” designation applies to oils intended for gasoline-engine cars, vans, and light trucks. Widespread use of “Energy Conserving” oils may result in an overall savings of fuel in the vehicle fleet as a whole.

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FRICTION MODIFIER
Definition: Additives that reduce the friction of moving engine parts or oil flow in the engine.

Moly is a friction modifier
 
I think it is more of a thickness issue. It seems that a MC oil needs to be more than 30wt.
 
Most often when a clutch slips, it is due to there already being a glaze on the plates surfaces. Some barrier adds can cause an already compromised clutch to show itself by changing it's action.

My take is that if the oil stays in grade (40wt) there should be no change in clutch action.
Only when the oil goes out of grade, and is loaded with barrier adds will any sort of clutch change be realised.

The real world anecdotes that I have heard over the years confims this theory.

I think Rotax also confimed this theory with extensive testing. And although I can't seem to find the paper right away, I think they concluded that only when the fluid goes out of grade, is there a problem with a fluid rich in barrier add possibly changing the clutch action.

We need to always consider the "Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda" factor when we read recommendations from mfg's. We also need to consider the fact that mfg's subscribe heavily to the CYA factor in ALL instances, especially if an OEM oil mfg is involved in any fashion.

There are motivations for the reccomendations OEM's provide, and these motivations aren't always directed at providing you with the optimum information. But no matter what, CYA always comes into play.
Actually CTA is more precise. (Covering THEIR asterisk)
 
The clutch slippin' thang is mostly old wives tale perpetuated by folks who sell $12/quart "motorcycle" oil. Do you think Mobil 1 would put moly in their motorcycle specific oils if clutch slippage was an issue?

Motorcycle guys on the whole are pretty ignorant about the whole oil issue and there is quite a bit of talk about these mysterious "friction modifiers" without actually knowing what they are. Same thing goes for the "energy conserving" label which from all I can determine simply means an oil 30wt or below.
 
Clutch slippage depends on the clutch surfaces. Fiber-to-fiber surfaces don't have much problem with FMs, fiber-to-metal sometimes do.
 
27,000+ miles on a Honda Cbr 600 F3, never ran anything but Mobil 1 syn.auto 10-30 from 0 miles. Original clutch, no slipping, and riden quite hard at times, with redline/revlimiter dynos runs from time to time. Even broke it in on the syn.( which some will say is a no-no, but strong engine with great dyno numbers)
 
I dunno, when I was drag racing a Suzuki Bandit oil choice was right in line with clutch life.

M1 10W30 worked very well, as did Rotella 15W40 and GTX 20W50. I think the GTX worked best but the M1 required little warm up time. The Rotella was nice but stank really bad at the top end of the track.

I never had an oil related failure other than smoking a few new clutches in 660 feet or less. My wife really hated it when stuff like that happens.
 
quote:

FRICTION MODIFIER
Definition: Additives that reduce the friction of moving engine parts or oil flow in the engine.

Not quite. A friction modifier "changes" dynamic or static friction. For example, MT's and AT's require special friction modifiers in order to allow hydraulic clutch or synchro engagement, depending on tranny type. The friction modifier in AT fluids allow the friction coefficent to change depending on whether the rotating surfaces are at different rotating velocites(dynamic) or are the same(static) rotating velocities.

A friction "reducer" in a PCMO or gear lube does reduce friction over what the base oil provides.

A friction modifier in LSD setups allows the correct dynamic friction such that the clutch cones or plates don't shutter, a condition known as "stick-slip."
 
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