Yes, Winter tires... Honda Fit

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Originally Posted By: Falken
...I need the best grip possible on my Fit, our Winters in Montreal are really bad, a lot of snow and ice...


If your winter temperatures are typically around -10 degC to 0 degC, then get a studded tire for the best possible ice traction, like a Nokian Hakka8 or Continental ContiIceContact.

Why studded tires?
I drove cars in -45c, and never needed studded tires.
Studded tire will help in pure ice, no question about it, but what you gain there you will loose in abysmal performance in dry, rain etc.


This post shows lack of knowledge in regards to ice slickness. Which is temperature dependant.
Good Studded tires can be much better on ice@NEAR FREEZING (0C) Temps.
the colder the ice the harder it is and not as slick.
studless tires can outperform studded at very low temps.


Originally Posted By: edyvw

Blizzaks are good in deep snow. I have them in winter on Tiguan and X5. However, I do not think they are on par with Continental when it comes to ice, slush and rain and dry.
Continental produces by far best winter tires in Europe, which is most profitable winter tire market in the world. They do not bring here those models, but I would say chemistry is same or very similar.
Also, Conti has new winter tire, Continental WinterContact SI.


Very overgeneralized to the point of being worthless.

Need models of tire for it to be of any use.


Originally Posted By: 360kid


Continenta Extreme WC which are on my wife's Camry in the winter. I bought them two winters ago based on rave reviews. I have been completely disappointed. Maybe it's just the Camry... I doubt it though.


The conti EWC was my favorite tire on my 2009 Elantra Touring.. much better than the yokohama IG20 I also had.
Some cars just arent that great in the winter so as you said it might not be totally fair to trash them.

This was the older model of EWC not the new directional model.



We have the directional model, well they have an inside and outside, which is directional. Completely true, it may just be that my Camry isn't great in the snow. I just don't assume that is the case as it's a pretty average sedan, if not the most common sedan in America. Maybe my Camry just can't grip in the snow? My experience is that my Impala with the Goodyear Ice WRT just pulls off the line on snow and is very grippy. I'm not writing off Continental. I just purchased today the True Contact DWS for my Impala.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Originally Posted By: Falken
...I need the best grip possible on my Fit, our Winters in Montreal are really bad, a lot of snow and ice...


If your winter temperatures are typically around -10 degC to 0 degC, then get a studded tire for the best possible ice traction, like a Nokian Hakka8 or Continental ContiIceContact.

Why studded tires?
I drove cars in -45c, and never needed studded tires.
Studded tire will help in pure ice, no question about it, but what you gain there you will loose in abysmal performance in dry, rain etc.


This post shows lack of knowledge in regards to ice slickness. Which is temperature dependant.
Good Studded tires can be much better on ice@NEAR FREEZING (0C) Temps.
the colder the ice the harder it is and not as slick.
studless tires can outperform studded at very low temps.


Originally Posted By: edyvw

Blizzaks are good in deep snow. I have them in winter on Tiguan and X5. However, I do not think they are on par with Continental when it comes to ice, slush and rain and dry.
Continental produces by far best winter tires in Europe, which is most profitable winter tire market in the world. They do not bring here those models, but I would say chemistry is same or very similar.
Also, Conti has new winter tire, Continental WinterContact SI.


Very overgeneralized to the point of being worthless.

Need models of tire for it to be of any use.


Originally Posted By: 360kid


Continenta Extreme WC which are on my wife's Camry in the winter. I bought them two winters ago based on rave reviews. I have been completely disappointed. Maybe it's just the Camry... I doubt it though.


The conti EWC was my favorite tire on my 2009 Elantra Touring.. much better than the yokohama IG20 I also had.
Some cars just arent that great in the winter so as you said it might not be totally fair to trash them.

This was the older model of EWC not the new directional model.


OK, I was thinking you are talking about lower temperatures better performance. I drove on snow tires all my life, and found only one snow tire that had serious issue on ice (Hankook W300).
As for European models of Continental, I personally owned TS780, 810, 830 and 850 (on my cars in Europe) and will see what new TS 860 brings.
While TS780 was outperformed by Good Year Ultra Grip 6 (owned that too and never been sold here in NA) later 810, 830 and 850 proved to be by far best performers in Europe. Actually, while Bridgestone in NA is go to tire, in most Europe is an afterthought (their snow tires).
Of all companies GoodYear had really good winter tires in EU for two decades, but in last decade they fall behind a bit.
IMO, buying snow tire should be buying tire that is good in ice, snow, slush, rain and maybe dry (but that is compromise). Studded tire is good on ice, and that is where advantages ends.
 
Originally Posted By: WillsYoda
Originally Posted By: 360kid
A good point that someone else brought up above about dry traction. Even in up-up-upstate NY, where we get a snow storm every week, once the snow stops and the plows get out, the roads are clear the next day. 85% of the time, you'll still be driving on dry pavement. For that reason, I have thought about performance winter tires. You would give up some snow traction for better dry and wet traction and longer life.


This is one big advantage of the X-Ice3's over Blizzaks. The Michelin X-Ice tires drive much better on dry road than Blizzaks (and the Michelins last twice as long). However, the Continental EWCs have even better dry performance than the Michelins, although the Continentals have lesser snow and ice performance. The Blizzaks wear quickly and have poor dry performance but are the best on snow and ice.

It is all a trade-off.

I like the compromise of the I-Xice3s, but it comes down to a personal choice of how you want to balance things like dry performance, wear characteristics, and grip on snow and ice.

That is why Continental has new snow tire, WinterContact SI.
Personally, IDK why they just do not bring here TS850 or new TS860. Same for GY. GY has some serious winter performers in Europe.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
IDK why they just do not bring here TS850 or new TS860. Same for GY. GY has some serious winter performers in Europe.


Mainly because few people actually buy winter tires here. The market for summer tires is also small and thus a limited selection. Americans typically want all season tires aka no season tires. Even in places with heavy snow people only want one set of tires to use all year
crazy2.gif


Kumho sells winter tires in Canada but not the US. Other tire companies sell more winter tires in Canada than the US as well.
 
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Originally Posted By: edyvw
IDK why they just do not bring here TS850 or new TS860. Same for GY. GY has some serious winter performers in Europe.


Mainly because few people actually buy winter tires here. The market for summer tires is also small and thus a limited selection. Americans typically want all season tires aka no season tires. Even in places with heavy snow people only want one set of tires to use all year
crazy2.gif


Kumho sells winter tires in Canada but not the US. Other tire companies sell more winter tires in Canada than the US as well.

Yeah I know. But for example Continental has new winter tires dedicated to NA market. probably they see some differences and think they need different tire completely, although for some sizes they do offer TS830.
But yeah, even here in CO people want mostly all season tires. Every winter storm we have mess precisely because of all season mentality and "i have AWD I do not need snow tires."
 
EWC's are being phased out and being replaced by WinterContact SI

Blizzak's, it depends on which one. Blizzak is a tire category name for Bridgestone. So, you can get Blizzak's that are better on ice & snow and you can get Blizzak's that trade some ice/snow performance for handling when it's not snowy & icy.

Since you're going to Costco, look at the Michelin Xice Xi3 as well. Many comparison tests show that the Blizzak WS-80 is a downgrade from the WS-70.
 
I wish you were closer. Otherwise I have a set of season-old X-Ice XI3's already mounted on alloys that I'd be quite happy to see off to a good home.
 
my mechanic recommended Nitto NT-SN2, which replaced the Nokian Hakka R on his wife's car. If he can entrust his wife's safety with them.... I figured... why not?

it's not on Nitto's website though... as something with deal with their tire distribution, so there it little info out there, though it appears to have the Microbit technology (crushed walnuts) and bamboo charcoal (water wicking).
 
Originally Posted By: 360kid

We have the directional model, well they have an inside and outside, which is directional. Completely true, it may just be that my Camry isn't great in the snow. I just don't assume that is the case as it's a pretty average sedan, if not the most common sedan in America. Maybe my Camry just can't grip in the snow? My experience is that my Impala with the Goodyear Ice WRT just pulls off the line on snow and is very grippy. I'm not writing off Continental. I just purchased today the True Contact DWS for my Impala.


Inside+outside markings just mean Asymmetrical,
Directional will also have a "direction of rotation arrow"

Asymmetrical can sometimes appear to be directional.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw

But yeah, even here in CO people want mostly all season tires. Every winter storm we have mess precisely because of all season mentality and "i have AWD I do not need snow tires."


Fortunately for Falken, it's law to have winter tires during the designated winter timeframe (iirc December to April), so he wouldn't have to worry as much about other drivers.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
my mechanic recommended Nitto NT-SN2, which replaced the Nokian Hakka R on his wife's car. If he can entrust his wife's safety with them.... I figured... why not?

it's not on Nitto's website though... as something with deal with their tire distribution, so there it little info out there, though it appears to have the Microbit technology (crushed walnuts) and bamboo charcoal (water wicking).

I would skip that, seriously.
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
EWC's are being phased out and being replaced by WinterContact SI

Blizzak's, it depends on which one. Blizzak is a tire category name for Bridgestone. So, you can get Blizzak's that are better on ice & snow and you can get Blizzak's that trade some ice/snow performance for handling when it's not snowy & icy.

Since you're going to Costco, look at the Michelin Xice Xi3 as well. Many comparison tests show that the Blizzak WS-80 is a downgrade from the WS-70.

I have WS-70 on my wife's Tiguan, and they are doing remarkable job.
I got DM-V2 for X5 and have a feeling it is not on par with previous Blizzaks. They just do not want to go through slush and rain (I think it is due to very busy tread design in the middle) and ice performance is OK, but they loose grip so suddenly without any progressive loss.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
EWC's are being phased out and being replaced by WinterContact SI

Blizzak's, it depends on which one. Blizzak is a tire category name for Bridgestone. So, you can get Blizzak's that are better on ice & snow and you can get Blizzak's that trade some ice/snow performance for handling when it's not snowy & icy.

Since you're going to Costco, look at the Michelin Xice Xi3 as well. Many comparison tests show that the Blizzak WS-80 is a downgrade from the WS-70.

I have WS-70 on my wife's Tiguan, and they are doing remarkable job.
I got DM-V2 for X5 and have a feeling it is not on par with previous Blizzaks. They just do not want to go through slush and rain (I think it is due to very busy tread design in the middle) and ice performance is OK, but they loose grip so suddenly without any progressive loss.


What other winter tires have you run on the X5 for comparison.

I have run both ws-70 and ws-80 on subaru foresters. The ws-80 is superior in all areas.
The ws-80 pattern is somewhat similar to the dm-v2.

Its not fair to compare different winter tires between different cars.

What size tires are these on both vehicles? Usually BMW have wide tires which are considerably worse in almost all winter conditions.

Thank you for including model of tires so we can have a good discussion.
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
EWC's are being phased out and being replaced by WinterContact SI

Blizzak's, it depends on which one. Blizzak is a tire category name for Bridgestone. So, you can get Blizzak's that are better on ice & snow and you can get Blizzak's that trade some ice/snow performance for handling when it's not snowy & icy.

Since you're going to Costco, look at the Michelin Xice Xi3 as well. Many comparison tests show that the Blizzak WS-80 is a downgrade from the WS-70.

I have WS-70 on my wife's Tiguan, and they are doing remarkable job.
I got DM-V2 for X5 and have a feeling it is not on par with previous Blizzaks. They just do not want to go through slush and rain (I think it is due to very busy tread design in the middle) and ice performance is OK, but they loose grip so suddenly without any progressive loss.


What other winter tires have you run on the X5 for comparison.

I have run both ws-70 and ws-80 on subaru foresters. The ws-80 is superior in all areas.
The ws-80 pattern is somewhat similar to the dm-v2.

Its not fair to compare different winter tires between different cars.

What size tires are these on both vehicles? Usually BMW have wide tires which are considerably worse in almost all winter conditions.

Thank you for including model of tires so we can have a good discussion.

I tried on X5 (though not on mine) Michelin Pilot Latitude 2. While X5 has wider tire (255) it is narrowest OEM tire (in summer I run 19in option), but difference is almost 2000lbs between two cars (diesel X5 is 5200lbs).
I think problem with DM-V2 is that unlike WS80, they do not have that central narrow tread pattern that is separate with two pretty wide channels. DM-V2 has really busy central tread pattern with small channels that separate side tread. I was wondering about this prior to buying tires but thought that seriously deep tread would compensate for that (they start at 12/32, while for example Michelin Xi2 start at 10/32). So in deep snow, going forward, packed snow etc, everything is great. Going through slush and rain is problem above 50mph (now, I know most people do not go through slush 50mph). I did not have this problem even with Blzzak LM-60 in 235/45 R17 size on CC which while narrower, CC is much lighter car.
Now, in rain DM-V2 are much worse then my all season tires (hydroplaning) Bridgestone Dualer H/L 400. Now Dualer's are mediocre tire, but they do go through rain fairly good, and their tread is nowhere as deep as DM-V2 and they are 255/50 R19.
Also, loss of grip in ice is like: great, great, great, holy [censored] what just happened. No progressive loss (and here I am talking about very low speeds) and I have never experienced this with any other winter tire (except Hankook W300, which were by far the worst snow tire I have ever owned).
Now, DM-V2 is great bang for a buck (I paid in DT $156 for 255/55 R18 109 T) and taking that into consideration DM-V2 is still a great buy.
As for WS70 and WS80, yes, I did not have a chance to try WS80 that is why I mentioned DM-V2 since they are same generation tire. I am still thinking that I will get WS-80 as replacement for WS70 since I am not that confident in Xi3 over Colorado passes in middle of blizzard.
 
Last edited:
loss of grip in ice is like: great, great, great, holy [censored] what just happened


[censored], just spit out my water....great description! Although sometimes I will be driving and I think ...did the engine just rev up a little there...what was..... holy [censored] what just happened....
 
Hankook Icebear W300 weren't that bad. They were designed more for the dry-winter climates than snowy climates. I had the W300's understeer through thick slush before... it was mostly my fault...

Hydroplaning and winter tires are a common thing...

which... leads to Nokian. Not to sound like an advertising commercial.... but Nokian does design lateral stability into snow into their tires. Designing stuff is all about controlling your trade-offs.

With hydroplaning, Nokian is able to achieve the European Class A wet grip rating with their winter tires. I think the Hakka R2 has it, as well as the WR D3 (which in 175/65r15 size, the WRG3 would have the D3 pattern).

I had no issues with the WR G3 (which is the A3), in my old Passat. I give up some snow/ice traction compared to the Hakka R2, but when it wasn't snowing, I was rewarded with less tread squirm when the roads were dry, cold & curvy, as well as not having issues with hydroplaning at highway speeds.

Like designing things, at the consumer level, choosing your tires is about choosing your trade-offs.
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Hankook Icebear W300 weren't that bad. They were designed more for the dry-winter climates than snowy climates. I had the W300's understeer through thick slush before... it was mostly my fault...

Hydroplaning and winter tires are a common thing...

which... leads to Nokian. Not to sound like an advertising commercial.... but Nokian does design lateral stability into snow into their tires. Designing stuff is all about controlling your trade-offs.

With hydroplaning, Nokian is able to achieve the European Class A wet grip rating with their winter tires. I think the Hakka R2 has it, as well as the WR D3 (which in 175/65r15 size, the WRG3 would have the D3 pattern).

I had no issues with the WR G3 (which is the A3), in my old Passat. I give up some snow/ice traction compared to the Hakka R2, but when it wasn't snowing, I was rewarded with less tread squirm when the roads were dry, cold & curvy, as well as not having issues with hydroplaning at highway speeds.

Like designing things, at the consumer level, choosing your tires is about choosing your trade-offs.

I did not refer to grip in wet weather, but ability to go through pile of water.
Good winter tire will not have issue there because:
1. Depth of tread
2. Tread design for snow/slush evacuation.

Now winter tires and wet grip are some other issue, and the still struggle with that.
As for NOKIAN, NOKIAN makes IMO, OK tires. They are really good in snow, ice, but for example R2 comes for BMW in R speed rating, and suspension on X5 and the way I drive, would eat away tire, especially in Colorado where you have 2ft of snow, and then 60 degrees tomorrow.
NOKIAN is really good in hardcore winters. However, I personally believe that Continental, Michelina nd some others figured how to make tire that will still get you through blizzard, but also provide really good traction on dry, wet etc.
My brother had NOKIAN snow tires in Bosnia (cannot remember name) with snowflake (over there in winter it is mandatory to have snow tires) and my impressions were: ehhhh, drove better.
 
Originally Posted By: krzyss
Modern studded tires (Hakkapellitta 8) are just noisy, dry performance is not that bad.


When I bought a set of winter tires a couple of years ago, the comparison tests I looked at were normally won by studded tires regardless of conditions. Noise and wet braking on asphalt were usually the weak points.

Though those were primarily European brands, and not at forty below zero, where the studs are no longer able to dig into the ice.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

S
Blizzak 6 Enliten Winter Tire
Replies
3
Views
503
SubLGT
O
Pickup Truck Winter Tires - Considering Michelin X-Ice Snow SUV
Replies
14
Views
3K
mdocod
S
CR: Best Tire Brands
2 3
Replies
50
Views
6K
krzyss
D
Best Winter tire for FWD with a bit too much power....
2
Replies
36
Views
3K
Ws6
C
My winter tire musings for 23-24 - BMW 535 w/ mods
2
Replies
20
Views
2K
edyvw
Back
Top