-40* pour test video

[Prune_Juice]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Prune_Juice
Was a little surprised to see Royal Purple not do as well as the other two, I have heard it said that the Group 4 base stocks don't have as well cold flow ability.


You "heard" that GrIV don't have the cold flow ability ?

Where, and links would be great.

The only grade that Royal Purple SEEM to have a decent amount of GrIV in is the 0W40

http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/PS_API_MotorOIl.pdf

the 0W40 is half the CCS of the 0W20, and has 45F higher flash point that the 5W30


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubricant

And you would have to search Royal Purple threads on here.. Get to it.

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
It looks like Mobil was the clear winner of that "test." The question is what does it prove?


It proves that the larger opening of the M1 bottle allows it to escape the bottle faster.

Agreed this keeps popping up here....the test needs to be redone with the same containers/beakers used to give the oips the same chance of flowing.

Edit: just watched the 2nd video....glad it was done...if not right, then at least better.


Yes the second test removed the container opening size as a variable. It's still odd to me that Amsoil has the best pour point of the four and didn't do as well as the Mobil 1.
Fugures lie and liars figure?


no, that one data point doesn't plot a temp/viscosity chart, nor does 3 points....

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: Prune_Juice
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Prune_Juice
Was a little surprised to see Royal Purple not do as well as the other two, I have heard it said that the Group 4 base stocks don't have as well cold flow ability.


You "heard" that GrIV don't have the cold flow ability ?

Where, and links would be great.

The only grade that Royal Purple SEEM to have a decent amount of GrIV in is the 0W40

http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/PS_API_MotorOIl.pdf

the 0W40 is half the CCS of the 0W20, and has 45F higher flash point that the 5W30


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubricant

And you would have to search Royal Purple threads on here.. Get to it.


from your link

Quote:
Many poly-alpha-olefins have flexible alkyl branching groups on every other carbon of their polymer backbone chain. These alkyl groups, which can shape themselves in numerous conformations, make it very difficult for the polymer molecules to align themselves up side-by-side in an orderly way. This results in lower contact surface area between the molecules and decreases the intermolecular interactions between molecules.[9] Therefore, many poly-alpha-olefins do not crystallize or solidify easily and are able to remain oily, viscous liquids even at lower temperatures.[10] Low molecular weight poly-alpha-olefins are useful as synthetic lubricants such as synthetic motor oils for vehicles and can be used over a wide temperature range.

 

[RegDunlop]

-40 seems an unrealistic test for a majority of drivers


Maybe like 5 deg f , and put a few different name brand conventionals and a discount synthetic


This test did impress me with regard to Mobil 1, an oil with the best reputation for a reason

 

[JimPghPA]

The coldest temperature I ever experienced here in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania was -20 Fahrenheit in January 1994. I had Mobil 5W-30 in my car that day and though it cranked slower than normal it did start. Many cars would not start that day.

 

[69GTX]

Originally Posted By: Garak
If anyone loves this test, they should choose their oil solely by pour point and ignore SAE grade. This is simply a barely reasonable facsimile of a pour point test. The YouTube fellow could have saved his bandwidth simply by looking at the data sheets for the oils involved, many of which have pour points. He should stick to GC or Co-op 0w-40 if he's impressed by pour point.


I mentioned above that referencing the pour points alone from the manufacturers (ie M1 vs. RP) would have led you to opposite results. Guess that's why oil is tested independently to verify those mfg claims.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Words cannot express how angry I get watching that video.
I get angry when the welfare check is late.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
The coldest temperature I ever experienced here in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania was -20 Fahrenheit in January 1994. I had Mobil 5W-30 in my car that day and though it cranked slower than normal it did start. Many cars would not start that day.
Probably the battery.

 

[stockrex]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
The coldest temperature I ever experienced here in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania was -20 Fahrenheit in January 1994. I had Mobil 5W-30 in my car that day and though it cranked slower than normal it did start. Many cars would not start that day.
Probably the battery.


It was -23F in MO one morning and my newer accord would not shift out of 1st gear till I was at the end of the sub, go figure.

This pour would give us a hint as to why synthetics are available to use for some who don't have a garage

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: Prune_Juice
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Words cannot express how angry I get watching that video.


Why?


Yes, please enlighten us.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
The coldest temperature I ever experienced here in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania was -20 Fahrenheit in January 1994. I had Mobil 5W-30 in my car that day and though it cranked slower than normal it did start. Many cars would not start that day.
Probably the battery.


However, I have seen the same thing myself here in Illinois.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Prune_Juice
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubricant

And you would have to search Royal Purple threads on here.. Get to it.


???? for the link stating that PAO has a worse pour point than the others...please provide something to back up your far fetched claim.

OK, here's the data sheets for Mobil SpectraSyn PAO 4cst.
http://exxonmobilchemical.ides.com/en-US/ds244622/SpectraSyn™%204.aspx?I=30156&U=0

Here's Shell's excellent XHVI Gr III
https://prodepc.blob.core.windows.net/epcblobstorage/GPCDOC_GTDS_XHVI_4.0.pdf

Please review the data sheets of actual oil basestocks, then review your belief/statement for how the two ACTUALLY behave.

Then, with that under your belt, have a look at the RP product data sheets, and you can see that not many of them appear to behave the way that an oil formulated with largely PAO would be expected to behave.

Honestly, making up junk statements (PAO doesn't pour) to justify the performance in this test demonstrates the lengths that RP fanbois will go to to empty their wallets.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
The coldest temperature I ever experienced here in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania was -20 Fahrenheit in January 1994. I had Mobil 5W-30 in my car that day and though it cranked slower than normal it did start. Many cars would not start that day.
Probably the battery.


However, I have seen the same thing myself here in Illinois.


If it was in the 80s, then it's explainable.

And funnily enough is EXACTLY why the testing regime shown in the videos was found not to add value, and they changed to CCS and MRV...the "pour point" type tests allowed a lot of engine failures at temperatures that should have been safe.

Ignore the paper proper in this link
http://www.savantgroup.com/media/SAE-2006-01-3352-Low-Temp-Rheology-of-soot-laden-oils-using-SBT.pdf

and got to the end, the explaination of the Sioux Falls incident (described as a debacle in some circles).

Lubricants of the day that passed the Pour point style testing that defined W grades in that era, when heated up to 180F, then cooled and held at 15-17F for a number of hours, then cooled another 5F would "gel".

The waxes in the oils would form little crystals (that's the milk look to the oils tested), the crystals would start to link up, then the oil would fail to flow to the pick-up on start...even at quite "reasonable" starting temperatures.

So they changed the test to the MRV, with a slow cooling profile to simulate the dangerous range.

It's also why if your oil storage gets down to well below freezing, you should heat it up to 180-200F before relying on it to start your car...101 says that the oil is irreparably changed, it's not, it's just got wax crystal "memory".

So unless the pour bottle tests are cooled similarly, they tell you nothing...again.

 

[cobra7279]

Did anyone notice that it took like six seconds to put the Amsoil bottle on after he put the mobil bottle on

 

[TiredTrucker]

While it is interesting to compare such things, those of us who have spent a lot of time in temps that low have this all figured out.... oil pan heaters. I lived near Fairbanks, AK for 10 years. Conventional oil the whole time. Engine heaters, oil pan heaters, and battery blanket warmers were considered the norm for the majority of folks. Engines would start like a warm summer day at -50F, which was not that uncommon. I still use oil pan warmers on some of my stuff even though I now live in Iowa and use syn blends. Most of the oil that I use is 10w30 now. Haven't lost a motor to an oil related problem yet.

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
While it is interesting to compare such things, those of us who have spent a lot of time in temps that low have this all figured out.... oil pan heaters. I lived near Fairbanks, AK for 10 years. Conventional oil the whole time. Engine heaters, oil pan heaters, and battery blanket warmers were considered the norm for the majority of folks. Engines would start like a warm summer day at -50F, which was not that uncommon. I still use oil pan warmers on some of my stuff even though I now live in Iowa and use syn blends. Most of the oil that I use is 10w30 now. Haven't lost a motor to an oil related problem yet.


You know as well as I that HBOs are not available everywhere. I spent 5 years near FAI (North Pole). Most would have to leave engines running all day (or periodically idle for a while then shut off) or else they might not start to go home.

0w oils did not exist back then that I recall (mid and late 90s), but if they had, it would have been easier.

 

[Jetronic]

I used M1 0w40 for the first time in the mid-nineties....

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
While it is interesting to compare such things, those of us who have spent a lot of time in temps that low have this all figured out.... oil pan heaters. I lived near Fairbanks, AK for 10 years. Conventional oil the whole time. Engine heaters, oil pan heaters, and battery blanket warmers were considered the norm for the majority of folks. Engines would start like a warm summer day at -50F, which was not that uncommon. I still use oil pan warmers on some of my stuff even though I now live in Iowa and use syn blends. Most of the oil that I use is 10w30 now. Haven't lost a motor to an oil related problem yet.


You know as well as I that HBOs are not available everywhere. I spent 5 years near FAI (North Pole). Most would have to leave engines running all day (or periodically idle for a while then shut off) or else they might not start to go home.

0w oils did not exist back then that I recall (mid and late 90s), but if they had, it would have been easier.


Not as dramatic as it sounds. North Pole, AK is south of Fairbanks by a few miles. I lived in the Delta Junction area, 60 miles outside Fairbanks. I mention Fairbanks as most folks get a idea where that is. Delta Junction, most folks haven't a clue. Most, except the few moronic employers, had plug ins for their employees at the work place even in our more remote neck of the woods. N. Pole can almost be considered a burb of Fairbanks in comparison. I plugged in every day at work. And my time in the area was 82-92, so I find it hard to imagine that everyone started removing plug ins around the area because the end of the century was fast approaching. Ow oils did exist. M1 was starting to really show up in the 80's. Most folks were leery of it at first.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Ow oils did exist. M1 was starting to really show up in the 80's. Most folks were leery of it at first.


Bear in mind that at that time, oils were rated on what was essentially a pour point, and a KV100.

It was before MRV, CCS, and HTHS, and many of the oils with an SAE rating didn't provide the actual protection that their rating implied.

0W, 5W, and 10W 40 were allowed to have the same HTHS minimum as an ILSAC 30 until only a few years ago.

 

[TiredTrucker]

And that could well be true. I have never used a 0wXX oil in my life and never have given it a passing thought.