Is 0w40 slightly Thicker than 5w30?

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Greg L

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N. Calif - State of Jefferson
The reason I ask:

I have been using Castrol Edge 5w30 in our 2007 Prius since last year.

My supply of the Castrol is about to run out, so I have been topping off with PU 0w40...which works fine. The question I have is: my next full OCI, should I just switch to my stash of PU 0w40, once the Edge runs out?


It is getting warmer here, not sure how much that will affect the weight.

Thoughts?


Thanks,

GL
 
A stronger 5w-30 grade like M1 runs around 11.1 vis at 100 deg C. The Castrol is probably close to that. The 0w-40 M1 used to be up at 13.5-13.8 but revent VOA's on the new FS stuff seems closer to 12.8-13.2. And that stuff shears darn pretty quick in the new Hellcats where it's at 11.8-12.4 in 500-1000 miles.

The gap between the 0w-40 vs. 5w-30 grades does seem to be shrinking. For those that want a stronger 40 grade they can use the 5w-40 which are still in the mid to upper 13's. Shouldn't be any problem running your 0w-40 PU in the warmer months in Northern Caifornia. And by fall, it will probably have sheared down to a 30 grade.
 
Depends on which 5w-30
wink.gif
A Euro 5w-30 and a 0w-40 are VERY close to the same viscosity. A typical GF-5 NA 5w-30 has an HTHS down closer to the 3.0 mark, making it a bit thinner.
 
I should mention the Castrol Edge is the EP (extended performance) variety.


Here are their number from the PDF MSDS:

5w30 Viscosity @ 100C, cSt ASTM D445 = 10.8
 
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That difference in KV@100*C in itself is substantial.
Having said that, I don't see any issue with a 0W40 in this car.
 
The kv@100's are not that far apart, but the HTHS is. As noted above, the 0w40 is a good bit thicker.

I would absolutely still use it though.
 
Depends which 5W30.
If you are talking about ACEA A1/A5, GF-5 and generally 5W30 oils you can find on shelfs in Wal Mart, yes 0W40 is significantly thicker.
If you are talking about 0/5W30 Euro oils (meeting ACEA A3, B3 B4, C3) then it is NOT significantly thicker.
For example.
New M1 0W40 FS has cst of 12.9. I am running M1 5W30 ESP in my BMW that has cst of 12.1. Even more important for turbo application, M1 0W40 FS has HTHS of 3.6. M1 5W30 ESP has HTHS of 3.58. So basically, no difference.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Even more important for turbo application, M1 0W40 FS has HTHS of 3.6. M1 5W30 ESP has HTHS of 3.58. So basically, no difference.


I hear what you are saying about Euro 5W-30 oils.

The Australian Castol Edge 5W-30 A3/B4 has a HTHS of 3.6 cP, same as the new M1 0W-40 FS.

The old M1 0W-40 was 3.8 cP, while regular ILSAC M1 5W-30 has a HTHS of 3.1 cP.

Right now I'm using Castrol GTX 15W-40 and it has a HTHS of 4.0 cP, while M1 0W-30 AFE has a HTHS of 3.0 cP.

So a 30 weight can be as low as 3.0 cP and a 40 weight can be as high as 4.0 cP with 3.5-3.6 cP being the border region.
 
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Even more important for turbo application, M1 0W40 FS has HTHS of 3.6. M1 5W30 ESP has HTHS of 3.58. So basically, no difference.


I hear what you are saying about Euro 5W-30 oils.

The Australian Castol Edge 5W-30 A3/B4 has a HTHS of 3.6 cP, same as the new M1 0W-40 FS.

The old M1 0W-40 was 3.8 cP, while regular ILSAC M1 5W-30 has a HTHS of 3.1 cP.

Right now I'm using Castrol GTX 15W-40 and it has a HTHS of 4.0 cP, while M1 0W-30 AFE has a HTHS of 3.0 cP.

So a 30 weight can be as low as 3.0 cP and a 40 weight can be as high as 4.0 cP with 3.5-3.6 cP being the border region.



Redline 5W40 has HTHS of 4.4cp.
Their 5W30 is 3.7!
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw

Redline 5W40 has HTHS of 4.4cp.
Their 5W30 is 3.7!


Yes and Penrite 10-Tenths 10W-40 has a HTHS of 4.45 cP (from memory) and M1 5W-50 has a HTHS of 4.4 and M1 15W-50 has a HTHS of 4.5 cP.

So just like 30 & 40 weight meet at 3.5 - 3.6 cP, it looks like 40 & 50 weight meet at 4.4 - 4.5 cP.

Yet most xW-20 oils are about 2.6 - 2.7 cP. This is a fairly narrow range. Of course RedLine 0W-20 is 2.9 & RL 5W-20 at 3.0 cP is the exception.

What was the OP's question again ? I may have got side tracked.
 
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A 0W-40 is often thinner than a 5W-30 (3.5cp HTHS) if you look at the Newtonian viscosity. The base oil will be much thinner on a 0W-40 and therefore also use more VII to get the Kv100 where it needs to be

Don't underestimate this base oil viscosity. It's more relevant than the non Newtonian oil and measurements made (HTHS and kv100 of fully formulated oil )

Not sure I can see a link between HTHS and turbo deposits though? VII amount and type are certainly more of interest.
 
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Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
A 0W-40 is often thinner than a 5W-30 (3.5cp HTHS) if you look at the Newtonian viscosity.

The only issue is that most people in North America haven't seen, let alone tried, a 5w-30 in A3/B4; E6, E7, E9; or C3.
 
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