EPA Fines VW big time...
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In other news I heard of this a few days ago..
Yes yesterday during football there was a bunch of VW ads including clean diesel ads.
So a bigger question is this.. Who is going to actually want their car fixed to pass the epa tests.
Will probably drop MPG absurdly and make them run funky.
I always wondered how they were able to make a clean smart diesel and no one else was...
There is my answer.
Yes yesterday during football there was a bunch of VW ads including clean diesel ads.
So a bigger question is this.. Who is going to actually want their car fixed to pass the epa tests.
Will probably drop MPG absurdly and make them run funky.
I always wondered how they were able to make a clean smart diesel and no one else was...
There is my answer.
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A major problem with the EPA's demand for perfection .
About time this agency was reined in .
The Tier 4 truck requirements are ridiculous .... when do we look at the benefit gained by these extreme regulations ?
I propose freezing emission regulations at the 2010 level for at least ten years and then looking at what we have achieved .
About time this agency was reined in .
The Tier 4 truck requirements are ridiculous .... when do we look at the benefit gained by these extreme regulations ?
I propose freezing emission regulations at the 2010 level for at least ten years and then looking at what we have achieved .
Benefits gained?
When's the last time you heard this?
"Char Miller recently wrote of Southern California's historical struggle with smog. On some days, the air was so polluted that "parents kept their kids out of school; athletes trained indoors; citrus growers and sugar-beet producers watched in dismay as their crops withered; the elderly and young crowded into doctors' offices and hospital ERs with throbbing heads and shortness of breath."
http://www.kcet.org/updaily/socal_focus/history/los-angeles-smoggy-past-photos-31321.html
When's the last time you heard this?
"Char Miller recently wrote of Southern California's historical struggle with smog. On some days, the air was so polluted that "parents kept their kids out of school; athletes trained indoors; citrus growers and sugar-beet producers watched in dismay as their crops withered; the elderly and young crowded into doctors' offices and hospital ERs with throbbing heads and shortness of breath."
http://www.kcet.org/updaily/socal_focus/history/los-angeles-smoggy-past-photos-31321.html
I am a VW fan, but this is just pathetic. I agree the standards are hard to achieve, but cheating is never acceptable.
They should have just suspended sales of diesels until the technology caught up. Easy to say now I guess.
They should have just suspended sales of diesels until the technology caught up. Easy to say now I guess.
Sure, but weren't we at that goal in the 1990's? The legitimate question is when do the incremental benefits no longer justify the costs?
Frankly, IIRC, NOx is more about acid rain, not about smog. And it was only a problem in certain areas. Wouldn't it make more sense to allow a vehicle to pick and choose emissions standards based on it's location? If in a congested urban setting, a more strict standard. If in a sparsely populated area, a more lax standard in favor of increased fuel economy could be implemented. The car picks the standard based on GPS readings.
If it can't determine via GPS, the strict standard is the one the ECU chooses.
But one-size fits all solutions really don't benefit all. They benefit a few. But all of us pay.
Originally Posted By: slug_bug
Benefits gained?
When's the last time you heard this?
"Char Miller recently wrote of Southern California's historical struggle with smog. On some days, the air was so polluted that "parents kept their kids out of school; athletes trained indoors; citrus growers and sugar-beet producers watched in dismay as their crops withered; the elderly and young crowded into doctors' offices and hospital ERs with throbbing heads and shortness of breath."
http://www.kcet.org/updaily/socal_focus/history/los-angeles-smoggy-past-photos-31321.html
Frankly, IIRC, NOx is more about acid rain, not about smog. And it was only a problem in certain areas. Wouldn't it make more sense to allow a vehicle to pick and choose emissions standards based on it's location? If in a congested urban setting, a more strict standard. If in a sparsely populated area, a more lax standard in favor of increased fuel economy could be implemented. The car picks the standard based on GPS readings.
If it can't determine via GPS, the strict standard is the one the ECU chooses.
But one-size fits all solutions really don't benefit all. They benefit a few. But all of us pay.
Originally Posted By: slug_bug
Benefits gained?
When's the last time you heard this?
"Char Miller recently wrote of Southern California's historical struggle with smog. On some days, the air was so polluted that "parents kept their kids out of school; athletes trained indoors; citrus growers and sugar-beet producers watched in dismay as their crops withered; the elderly and young crowded into doctors' offices and hospital ERs with throbbing heads and shortness of breath."
http://www.kcet.org/updaily/socal_focus/history/los-angeles-smoggy-past-photos-31321.html
Article reads VW COULD be fined up to 18 billion dollars.
No fine levied yet.
They'll probably be hit for several million
No fine levied yet.
They'll probably be hit for several million
Already being discussed http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rec#Post3857776
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
Does anybody know when a recall could be issued or when computers will be reprogrammed?
I'm asking because my aunt's 2013 TDI Beetle needs some warranty work and would like to get it done before this recall, and not get the recall done.
I'm asking because my aunt's 2013 TDI Beetle needs some warranty work and would like to get it done before this recall, and not get the recall done.
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Sure, but weren't we at that goal in the 1990's? The legitimate question is when do the incremental benefits no longer justify the costs?
Frankly, IIRC, NOx is more about acid rain, not about smog. And it was only a problem in certain areas. Wouldn't it make more sense to allow a vehicle to pick and choose emissions standards based on it's location? If in a congested urban setting, a more strict standard. If in a sparsely populated area, a more lax standard in favor of increased fuel economy could be implemented. The car picks the standard based on GPS readings.
If it can't determine via GPS, the strict standard is the one the ECU chooses.
But one-size fits all solutions really don't benefit all. They benefit a few. But all of us pay.
Makes perfect sense. They could also use an FM radio subcarrier to announce it's an extra-bad day in the broadcast region and please detune.
Saving CO2 is more of a country-wide if not global goal, and clean, lean diesel when its NOx isn't a problem is great for this.
For all we know the EPA defeat device could be a GPS that detects the test centere. (Though Jalopnik posits that it's the rear wheel speed sensors at zero being strapped down on the dyno.)
Sure, but weren't we at that goal in the 1990's? The legitimate question is when do the incremental benefits no longer justify the costs?
Frankly, IIRC, NOx is more about acid rain, not about smog. And it was only a problem in certain areas. Wouldn't it make more sense to allow a vehicle to pick and choose emissions standards based on it's location? If in a congested urban setting, a more strict standard. If in a sparsely populated area, a more lax standard in favor of increased fuel economy could be implemented. The car picks the standard based on GPS readings.
If it can't determine via GPS, the strict standard is the one the ECU chooses.
But one-size fits all solutions really don't benefit all. They benefit a few. But all of us pay.
Makes perfect sense. They could also use an FM radio subcarrier to announce it's an extra-bad day in the broadcast region and please detune.
Saving CO2 is more of a country-wide if not global goal, and clean, lean diesel when its NOx isn't a problem is great for this.
For all we know the EPA defeat device could be a GPS that detects the test centere. (Though Jalopnik posits that it's the rear wheel speed sensors at zero being strapped down on the dyno.)
NOx is a cause of cancer I believe. If correct, you don't want more of it extra-urban either
Originally Posted By: eljefino
For all we know the EPA defeat device could be a GPS that detects the test centere. (Though Jalopnik posits that it's the rear wheel speed sensors at zero being strapped down on the dyno.)
gps doesn't pick up satellites, steering wheel doesn't move, rear wheels don't turn etc... the possibilities are numerous
For all we know the EPA defeat device could be a GPS that detects the test centere. (Though Jalopnik posits that it's the rear wheel speed sensors at zero being strapped down on the dyno.)
gps doesn't pick up satellites, steering wheel doesn't move, rear wheels don't turn etc... the possibilities are numerous
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Does anybody know when a recall could be issued or when computers will be reprogrammed?
I'm asking because my aunt's 2013 TDI Beetle needs some warranty work and would like to get it done before this recall, and not get the recall done.
Take it in ASAP, the official TSB hasn't even been issued yet.
I would make sure to ask the dealer to refrain from doing anything else besides what you requested.
Does anybody know when a recall could be issued or when computers will be reprogrammed?
I'm asking because my aunt's 2013 TDI Beetle needs some warranty work and would like to get it done before this recall, and not get the recall done.
Take it in ASAP, the official TSB hasn't even been issued yet.
I would make sure to ask the dealer to refrain from doing anything else besides what you requested.
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: eljefino
For all we know the EPA defeat device could be a GPS that detects the test centere. (Though Jalopnik posits that it's the rear wheel speed sensors at zero being strapped down on the dyno.)
gps doesn't pick up satellites, steering wheel doesn't move, rear wheels don't turn etc... the possibilities are numerous
My thought is either detection of ASM mode from the ESP system - since the car will spin up two wheels and there's a certain engine RPM at a certain gear/speed combo. And since OBD-II can implement CAN communication in the latest versions of it, the car's PCM can recognize if it's connected to I/M test equipment via a CAN message.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
For all we know the EPA defeat device could be a GPS that detects the test centere. (Though Jalopnik posits that it's the rear wheel speed sensors at zero being strapped down on the dyno.)
gps doesn't pick up satellites, steering wheel doesn't move, rear wheels don't turn etc... the possibilities are numerous
My thought is either detection of ASM mode from the ESP system - since the car will spin up two wheels and there's a certain engine RPM at a certain gear/speed combo. And since OBD-II can implement CAN communication in the latest versions of it, the car's PCM can recognize if it's connected to I/M test equipment via a CAN message.
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Does anybody know when a recall could be issued or when computers will be reprogrammed?
I'm asking because my aunt's 2013 TDI Beetle needs some warranty work and would like to get it done before this recall, and not get the recall done.
Take it in ASAP, the official TSB hasn't even been issued yet.
I would make sure to ask the dealer to refrain from doing anything else besides what you requested.
If possible, I suggest you physically LOCK the connector plug.
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Does anybody know when a recall could be issued or when computers will be reprogrammed?
I'm asking because my aunt's 2013 TDI Beetle needs some warranty work and would like to get it done before this recall, and not get the recall done.
Take it in ASAP, the official TSB hasn't even been issued yet.
I would make sure to ask the dealer to refrain from doing anything else besides what you requested.
If possible, I suggest you physically LOCK the connector plug.
Originally Posted By: Rand
In other news I heard of this a few days ago..
Yes yesterday during football there was a bunch of VW ads including clean diesel ads.
So a bigger question is this.. Who is going to actually want their car fixed to pass the epa tests.
Will probably drop MPG absurdly and make them run funky.
I always wondered how they were able to make a clean smart diesel and no one else was...
There is my answer.
I myself will try to avoid this recall update for as long as possible, but being that I am in Commifornia I will probably have to get proof of an update before my next registration. If there is a drastic decrease in performance and mpg then I am hoping there will be a buyback. I really dont care about all the emissions though, Im sure that there are plenty gas vehicles on the road that are much worse.
BMW has been able to make a clean diesel with comparable fuel economy in their 328D and they seem to have no problems passing the emissions tests. I might get one of those if I get rid of my TDI.
In other news I heard of this a few days ago..
Yes yesterday during football there was a bunch of VW ads including clean diesel ads.
So a bigger question is this.. Who is going to actually want their car fixed to pass the epa tests.
Will probably drop MPG absurdly and make them run funky.
I always wondered how they were able to make a clean smart diesel and no one else was...
There is my answer.
I myself will try to avoid this recall update for as long as possible, but being that I am in Commifornia I will probably have to get proof of an update before my next registration. If there is a drastic decrease in performance and mpg then I am hoping there will be a buyback. I really dont care about all the emissions though, Im sure that there are plenty gas vehicles on the road that are much worse.
BMW has been able to make a clean diesel with comparable fuel economy in their 328D and they seem to have no problems passing the emissions tests. I might get one of those if I get rid of my TDI.
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
I'm sure there will be a way to keep the current tune and reinstall it after the "fix".
Yep, most independent VW specialty shops will gladly do a reflash back to the original software coding if you take the car into the dealer for any work or emissions testing.
I personally would if at all possible NOT take the car into the dealer for that TSB "fix" unless you are compelled to do so by law.
Just for those owners that don't realize it and are reading these posts this recall and TSB is related to VW DIESEL engined cars only. The gasoline power engines are NOT affected in any way by this recall or TSB.
I'm sure there will be a way to keep the current tune and reinstall it after the "fix".
Yep, most independent VW specialty shops will gladly do a reflash back to the original software coding if you take the car into the dealer for any work or emissions testing.
I personally would if at all possible NOT take the car into the dealer for that TSB "fix" unless you are compelled to do so by law.
Just for those owners that don't realize it and are reading these posts this recall and TSB is related to VW DIESEL engined cars only. The gasoline power engines are NOT affected in any way by this recall or TSB.
I think that one would have to avoid VW dealer for the rest of the time they own the vehicle to avoid the ECM changes to make EPA happy. Kinda iffy about whether a independent shop with proper equipment might also get caught up in the EPA crush. When the EPA gets a hair, it usually has ripple effects further than the initial uproar. Navistar got in some hot water with the EPA on its Maxxforce engine lineup and even after really taking a beating over it, the EPA still is trying to find ways to make their life miserable and take even more money from them. The EPA, as it was first intended, was not all that bad. But it has become the epitome of evil. Time to put the genie back in the bottle.
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