Is salt on the roads really necessary ?

[dlayman]

Originally Posted By: Andy636
Originally Posted By: dlayman
Originally Posted By: Andy636
Originally Posted By: dlayman


Source of this corrosion info? The chloride ion is the attacking part of the Nacl molecule. Iron and steel are susceptible to corrosion from halides, of which chloride is an example, in general. Sodium or calcium being the counter cation should make no difference, they can both be correctly referred to as chloride salts.. Sand is not corrosive to metal, however it may cause paint damage, exposing the metal to the salt of other environmental factors.


Forgot to mention one aspect; they use corrosion inhibited CaCl2.

I never said that sand is corrosive, but the test I've read compared the CaCl2 effect on steel, Al and Al-Mg with the sandblasting and corrosion effect at elevated speeds of the sand-salt mixture and it came about 80 times less.

I could go dig the links if you wish, but they are in Romanian


Interesting. I wonder how they make it corrosion-inhibited. pH adjustment might have an effect, though probably not enough. I wonder if the mixture includes an amount of a sacrificial metal for the chloride to attack, rather than the iron and other metals of the vehicle.

We don't get sand here - we get even worse. Tiny gravel and stone chips ("cinders") which absolutely beat the tar out of the front of your car, letting it nice and exposed to the corrosive salt.


Don't know the exact formulation but the used substance also has manganese chloride, calcium hydroxide, and anhydride.

I know close to nothing about chemistry so I can't tell what's what...LOL...sorry...no Walter White here.


The hydroxide would keep the pH alkaline, possibly inhibiting corrosion. And the manganese is probably there as the sacrificial metal as it has several oxidative states (rust is basically oxidation of iron). Anhydride is basically a descriptor term, meaning without water - not sure what its referring too, there might be something missing from your list of ingredients. Thanks for the info, though, there's enough there for it to make sense to me (chemistry background). I can see why this would be much more expensive than simple sodium or calcium chloride, it likely needs to be mixed pretty exactly for it to work well.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Andy636
Originally Posted By: Garak
Get this - they use a lot of salt on our roads, but use a lot of calcium chloride on northern Saskatchewan roads in the summer to keep the dust down.


That is correct, when it dries out it becomes sticky also reducing breaking distances.

My point would be that it would be nice if they used some of it down south. In any event, rusting vehicles in this province is nowhere near what it used to be.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: KGMtech
Global Warming, might be our best solution to problems from salt use.

However, those presently in Snow Free zones might find their local environment too toasty for long-term enjoyment if the GW thing is fully realized. YMMV.
Except it hasn't been working out that way.

 

[Andy636]

Originally Posted By: dlayman

The hydroxide would keep the pH alkaline, possibly inhibiting corrosion. And the manganese is probably there as the sacrificial metal as it has several oxidative states (rust is basically oxidation of iron). Anhydride is basically a descriptor term, meaning without water - not sure what its referring too, there might be something missing from your list of ingredients. Thanks for the info, though, there's enough there for it to make sense to me (chemistry background). I can see why this would be much more expensive than simple sodium or calcium chloride, it likely needs to be mixed pretty exactly for it to work well.


It costs about $1,250/tone after tax. I suppose that if you buy in bulk a couple of hundred tones it goes down in price substantially.

The price of salt is about $80/tone here

Definitely more expensive but well worth the coin instead of having FUBAR roads in the cities every spring

 

[HTSS_TR]

Not only we don't have salt on the roads in So Cal, we don't even have wet surface, more than 350-360 days a year all streets are as dry as can be.

Under the 1994 LS400 it is as clean as it was 21 years ago, no rust anywhere can be found. I'm surprise that many drivers in NE have to change brake line(s) after 8-10 years, down here the brake lines are life time.

 

[sxg6]

The only thing that video tells me is Chevy needs better rustproofing. My 6 year old Subaru with 180k has lived in New England its whole life, and looks nothing like that.

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Not only we don't have salt on the roads in So Cal, we don't even have wet surface, more than 350-360 days a year all streets are as dry as can be.

Under the 1994 LS400 it is as clean as it was 21 years ago, no rust anywhere can be found. I'm surprise that many drivers in NE have to change brake line(s) after 8-10 years, down here the brake lines are life time.


Next time I need a used car, I'm coming down there, ok?

Perhaps I can pay you some to check it out!

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted By: sxg6
The only thing that video tells me is Chevy needs better rustproofing. My 6 year old Subaru with 180k has lived in New England its whole life, and looks nothing like that.


Agree, our 10yr old/191k Subaru legacy has no significant rust yet. Some rock chips on fender are rust colored but still holding strong. If it lasts 5yr longer I am fine.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Then there is magnesium chloride. The granddaddy of corrosive compounds used for de-icing by many jurisdictions, especially in locations where they spray on a brine solution prior to snow storms. That brine is usually a mix of salt and mag chloride. Does a pretty good job..... on the roads. But it is truly killer on equipment.

That is why all of my new pickups and autos get a full rust proofing job, undercoating, and paint protection package before I take possession off a dealer lot. I have grown very fond of Amsoil HD Metal Protector product for my commercial semi trucks. I wash the frames and suspension down real well before fall and spray it all down with the Amsoil product. Fairly cost effective at $6.50 per 16 oz aerosol can. I buy it by the case. Several times during the winter, the frame gets a thorough wash down at a professional truck wash location and redone with the Amsoil HDMP.

 

[Doog]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Watching this video on youtube showing a Chevy S-10 severely rusted out, I question the need for salt. You buy a new car over in upstate New York and within 10 years the car is totally gutted out. I don't see why you people over there even bother buying new cars. Over here in California, my car is 15 years old and I'd have to look real hard to find a spec of rust on it. Must be nice you say? Yes it's nice.

With the amount in taxes I save in 15 years versus living in California I can buy 3 cars