Is M1 0W40 Still the King of Euro?

[Mrsandman]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
No, Amsoil still is.



Pfffffft. Overpriced and no real world gain using it. Castrol euro and m1 euro can be had for under 30 a jug and carry real world approvals,not meets or exceeds.
Amsoil is a good product but only a fool pays those kinds of prices for a product when a certified product can be had for cheaper.

You mean like you did for ten years and then found out that you wasted a lot of money because you didn't use the Amsoil to its full potential or longevity?
I guess I'd be a little sore too. But you can only blame the man in the mirror for that.
Lol, these oil threads never go away I guess. I've read your comments about Amsoil from the past.
Don't worry though, it appears that most who do use Amsoil waste it too.

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: Clevy



Pfffffft. Overpriced and no real world gain using it. Castrol euro and m1 euro can be had for under 30 a jug and carry real world approvals,not meets or exceeds.
Amsoil is a good product but only a fool pays those kinds of prices for a product when a certified product can be had for cheaper.



Clevy,

Just as an FYI... Amsoil has obtained formal manufacturer's certifications for their Mid-SAPS 5W40 and Full-SAPS 5W40 Euro oils. I know that these oils are approved by Benz to 229.51 (mid-SAPS) and 229.5 (full-SAPS) specifications, as indicated on the Mercedes BEVO website (google Mercedes BEVO and you'll find it as the first or second hit if you're interested).

Not that it makes it any better (or worse) than the normal offerings of M1 0W40, Castrol 0W40, and the PP Euro options (for our fellow Americans anyway).

But at least here in Canada, with a PC membership, Amsoil can be quite reasonable compared to our normal parts store prices, but when M1 or Castrol is on sale at Canadian Tire, then obviously they are the better value when looking for Euro-certified oils.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
No, Amsoil still is.


If you used Amsoil instead of M1 0W-40 in my BMW, what benefit would I obtain?

If you used it to its full potential, you could potentially get a really long oci out of it.
That being said I could care aless if you use it or not

.


You do realize that M1 0w-40 is already an extended drain oil right? Most of the Euro OEM's run extended drain intervals.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: il_signore97

Just as an FYI... Amsoil has obtained formal manufacturer's certifications for their Mid-SAPS 5W40 and Full-SAPS 5W40 Euro oils. I know that these oils are approved by Benz to 229.51 (mid-SAPS) and 229.5 (full-SAPS) specifications, as indicated on the Mercedes BEVO website (google Mercedes BEVO and you'll find it as the first or second hit if you're interested).


Yessir, I was VERY glad to see that happen, as it means that AMSOIL now offers cost competitive APPROVED lubricants for European applications

I'm hoping we'll see them do the same with their 0w-40, which is currently just a "recommended for" product.

Originally Posted By: il_signore97
Not that it makes it any better (or worse) than the normal offerings of M1 0W40, Castrol 0W40, and the PP Euro options (for our fellow Americans anyway).

But at least here in Canada, with a PC membership, Amsoil can be quite reasonable compared to our normal parts store prices, but when M1 or Castrol is on sale at Canadian Tire, then obviously they are the better value when looking for Euro-certified oils.


Yes, but they are still a 5w-40 grade at this point, so European car owners looking to get the best winter performance are still going to be more inclined to use an approved 0w-40 at this point like M1 0w-40 or Castrol 0w-40.

 

[Mrsandman]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
No, Amsoil still is.


If you used Amsoil instead of M1 0W-40 in my BMW, what benefit would I obtain?

If you used it to its full potential, you could potentially get a really long oci out of it.
That being said I could care aless if you use it or not

.


You do realize that M1 0w-40 is already an extended drain oil right? Most of the Euro OEM's run extended drain intervals.

I do but I'm not convinced it's cut out to extend as far as Amsoil is. Anyway, the question was is mobil1 king? I think when people basically try to discern what's the best. Most would agree Amsoil is. Is it? I dunno but that would be the common perception among most that are into the whole extended oil use thing. Maybe not on this forum, but there's really a whole world out there, Really

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Mrsandman

I do but I'm not convinced it's cut out to extend as far as Amsoil is. Anyway, the question was is mobil1 king? I think when people basically try to discern what's the best. Most would agree Amsoil is. Is it? I dunno but that would be the common perception among most that are into the whole extended oil use thing. Maybe not on this forum, but there's really a whole world out there, Really


Speaking generally (and not confining ourselves to the topic of Euro oils, which the titles of this thread does), I would say that AMSOIL, as a brand and their Signature Series, as a product, is probably the best readily available extended drain oil out there in terms of the extent that drains can be extended, as that's their forte, but "best" needs to be quantified/qualified relative to application. Mobil makes a line of extended drain oils (their EP oils) but they are designed for "up to" 15,000 miles, or 10,000 miles less than what AMSOIL targets with their Signature Series lineup.

As far as extended drains with a Euro oil, they are pretty much all the same, as they are required to be in order to obtain their formal approvals and AMSOIL's current crop of Euro oils are, at least many of them, formally approved, meaning their performance is "on par" (relative to what is required by the Euro OEM's) with the other oils approved for the same applications.

The title of the thread was whether M1 0w-40 was the King of Euro, not whether Mobil 1 was the king of extended drains. I know things got a bit derailed but in terms of availability and price (which can often be had on sale) I would argue that yes, it is, though Castrol 0w-40 is so close (and carries basically all the same approvals) that it really comes down to preference.

If AMSOIL gets their 0w-40 formally approved, then priced via PC or dealer, it will be very competitive with those two oils and may actually be cheaper for many of us than the "regular" price on the above two oils I mentioned.

 

[Mrsandman]

I thought mobile1 was slot more expensive in places like Europe and Australia etc. Anyway king of Europe or anywhere sounds like an opinion based question to me.
I've already decided the pricey synthetics are a waste of my money except I often bump into some sorta mark down and buy it for less than conventional just because it's a good deal.so mobile1 nor Amsoil typical appeal to me.

 

[Leonardo629]

All right fellas, before we start seeing "Amsoil" mentioned in every post, let's get back to the topic.

I brought up the revised MSDS because I didn't see any "special" additive in the sheet, perhaps nothing special was mentioned in the previous version to begin with. But unlike 0W20EP or TGMO 0W20, which do mention compositions of PAO and this exotic organo moly-sulfur, 0W40 now just has this catalytic dewaxed stuff.

So that's why I raised the question did Mobil change something?

And yes, I do think price and availability should also be factored into the "worthiness" of motor oil.

I've never tried Castrol 0W40 Euro, but if its performance is as good or better than M1, then it too, can be a king of Euro base on performance, availability, and price.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
I thought mobile1 was slot more expensive in places like Europe and Australia etc. Anyway king of Europe or anywhere sounds like an opinion based question to me.


He means king of the European oils, which, with a few exceptions, if we look at price and availability, it probably is. Though as I noted, Castrol's 0w-40 is incredibly close.

Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
I've already decided the pricey synthetics are a waste of my money except I often bump into some sorta mark down and buy it for less than conventional just because it's a good deal.so mobile1 nor Amsoil typical appeal to me.


And that's fine if that's all your application calls for. Euro cars tend to call for lubricants carrying one or more manufacturer approvals on it, and these oils are basically all synthetic.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
I thought mobile1 was slot more expensive in places like Europe and Australia etc.

The OP is in the US.

Quote:
Anyway king of Europe

lol lol lol...

King of Euro, as in king of European engine oil applications.

 

[Mrsandman]

I thought mobile1 was slot more expensive in places like Europe and Australia etc. Anyway king of Europe or anywhere sounds like an opinion based question to me.
I've already decided the pricey synthetics are a waste of my money except I often bump into some sorta mark down and buy it for less than conventional just because it's a good deal.so mobile1 nor Amsoil typical appeal to me.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Leonardo629

I brought up the revised MSDS because I didn't see any "special" additive in the sheet, perhaps nothing special was mentioned in the previous version to begin with. But unlike 0W20EP or TGMO 0W20, which do mention compositions of PAO and this exotic organo moly-sulfur, 0W40 now just has this catalytic dewaxed stuff.


TGMO lists that it is almost entirely Group III:

Quote:
SEVERELY HYDROTREATED HEAVY PARAFFINIC DISTILLATE - CAS 64742-54-7 70-80%


Originally Posted By: Leonardo629
So that's why I raised the question did Mobil change something?

And yes, I do think price and availability should also be factored into the "worthiness" of motor oil.


Yes, it appears they have and I have no idea what that CAS # and designation of:

Quote:
CATALYTIC DEWAXED LIGHT PARAFFINIC OIL - CAS 64742-71-8 30-40%


means, so I'm going to ask Molakule in the thread we have on CAS numbers if you don't mind.

It can be found here:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/257884/4

My guess, is, given the similarity to the CAS for the TGMO base, that it is probably a Group III oil, perhaps VISOM? Though it could be GTL too if Shell and XOM have started sharing that, though that is doubtful.

 

[OVERKILL]

The German MSDS (not updated, still from November 2014) shows:

Quote:
Dec-1-ene, homopolymer, hydrogenated Dec-1-ene, oligomers, hydrogenated CAS 68037-01-4 50-60%


Which is PAO.

The Canadian MSDS is, as usual, useless

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Mola From Other Thread
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Hey Mola, as per this current thread:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3846579

What is the CAS # 64742-71-8 which is showing up in the new MSDS for M1 0w-40 (US MSDS) @ 30-40%, is this group III?

The description is:

Quote:
CATALYTIC DEWAXED LIGHT PARAFFINIC OIL (PETROLEUM)

That CAS describes an oil which was de-waxed using a catalytic process and which is simply a low viscosity, highly refined Group II.

 

[edhackett]

http://chem.sis.nlm.nih.gov/chemidplus/rn/64742-71-8

Here's the first synonym:
Mineral oil, petroleum distillates catalytic dewaxed light paraffinic (mild or no solvent-refining or hydrotreatment)

The second:
Mineral oil, petroleum distillates catalytic dewaxed light paraffinic (severe solvent-refining and/or hydrotreatment

That CAS number most commonly refers to what would be a Group I oil. It also allows for hydrotreatment, so it could be a Group II, as MolaKule states.

Ed

 

[edhackett]

It would appear that that CAS # is assigned to Mobil's Visom 4 base stock.

It would appear that the wording allows for both severe solvent refining and/or severe hydrotreatment.

http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/IntApps/psims/SearchResults.aspx

Ed

 

[Leonardo629]

I don't know if it's true, but catalytic dewaxed is used to improve cold flow property base on my research, which makes a lot of sense for a 0W oil.

Perhaps the rest 50% of the oil is still PAO like overkill posted, Mobil just decided to leave that info out in the latest MSDS.

UK MSDS was updated back in May this year, and it still has that PAO wording (Dec-1-ene, homopolymer, hydrogenated Dec-1-ene, oligomers, hydrogenated).

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


Yessir, I was VERY glad to see that happen, as it means that AMSOIL now offers cost competitive APPROVED lubricants for European applications

I'm hoping we'll see them do the same with their 0w-40, which is currently just a "recommended for" product.


Agreed...

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


Yes, but they are still a 5w-40 grade at this point, so European car owners looking to get the best winter performance are still going to be more inclined to use an approved 0w-40 at this point like M1 0w-40 or Castrol 0w-40.


...and agreed!

Me being a 0W40 user myself (either M1 or Castrol Euro - whichever I find on sale lol), I would love to see the Amsoil 0W40 get approved. I have a hunch that it will be though, because I'm sure they took that into account when they formulated it. It likely just needs time to go through the testing protocols. In any case, we shall see what happens

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Leonardo629
I don't know if it's true, but catalytic dewaxed is used to improve cold flow property base on my research, which makes a lot of sense for a 0W oil.

Perhaps the rest 50% of the oil is still PAO like overkill posted, Mobil just decided to leave that info out in the latest MSDS.

UK MSDS was updated back in May this year, and it still has that PAO wording (Dec-1-ene, homopolymer, hydrogenated Dec-1-ene, oligomers, hydrogenated).


I would call the given oil's CAS # a Group II+ (a highly refined paraffinc) but there is no indication that this base oil is a Visom Group III oil, since most CAS's for Group III usually carry a different CAS number.

A majority of PAO with either a Group II+ or a Group III should have good performance with the correct Infineum addpack.

Just remember, the MSDS is somewhat bogus in terms of percentages of base oils and additives, since the MSDS is a health-risk and Toxicology document and not a formula.

In fact many MSDS's now state something like this, "The exact percentages of components reported may vary due to processing variability and the withholding of proprietary data."

 

[camrydriver111]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Just remember, the MSDS is somewhat bogus in terms of percentages of base oils and additives, since the MSDS is a health-risk and Toxicology document and not a formula.


That's the truth.

Don't get carried away reading MSDS.