If a guy thinks about it a bit, when your engine is shut off, the starter pinion to ring gear/flex stop locations will be repeatable around the ring circumference. How many locations will depend on how many cylinders. If the stop/start locations were completely random, it wouldn't matter as much, but as is, the wear will be more than one might think. If we hear later of transmissions having to be pulled to deal with this it wouldn't surprise. Maybe the designers figure this in-maybe not-we'll see.
turn off or leave running?
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Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
Id like opinions or better yet facts about weather its best to leave my motor running during short stints between destinations. Like running inside a gas station to buy a soda pop or pulling over to take a call etc.
Ive read that .......................... or worrying about someone jacking my ride when im not looking. Thanks
This is a question for your vehicle insurance company not BITOG internet surfies!
Do you have vehicle insurance ??
Id like opinions or better yet facts about weather its best to leave my motor running during short stints between destinations. Like running inside a gas station to buy a soda pop or pulling over to take a call etc.
Ive read that .......................... or worrying about someone jacking my ride when im not looking. Thanks
This is a question for your vehicle insurance company not BITOG internet surfies!
Do you have vehicle insurance ??
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Originally Posted By: Lapham3
If a guy thinks about it a bit, when your engine is shut off, the starter pinion to ring gear/flex stop locations will be repeatable around the ring circumference. How many locations will depend on how many cylinders. If the stop/start locations were completely random, it wouldn't matter as much, but as is, the wear will be more than one might think. If we hear later of transmissions having to be pulled to deal with this it wouldn't surprise. Maybe the designers figure this in-maybe not-we'll see.
I highly doubt that you would wear the teeth off the flywheel or starter. It would be interesting to stop by the UPS garage one time and ask.
If a guy thinks about it a bit, when your engine is shut off, the starter pinion to ring gear/flex stop locations will be repeatable around the ring circumference. How many locations will depend on how many cylinders. If the stop/start locations were completely random, it wouldn't matter as much, but as is, the wear will be more than one might think. If we hear later of transmissions having to be pulled to deal with this it wouldn't surprise. Maybe the designers figure this in-maybe not-we'll see.
I highly doubt that you would wear the teeth off the flywheel or starter. It would be interesting to stop by the UPS garage one time and ask.
Originally Posted By: Snoman002
Originally Posted By: Lapham3
If a guy thinks about it a bit, when your engine is shut off, the starter pinion to ring gear/flex stop locations will be repeatable around the ring circumference. How many locations will depend on how many cylinders. If the stop/start locations were completely random, it wouldn't matter as much, but as is, the wear will be more than one might think. If we hear later of transmissions having to be pulled to deal with this it wouldn't surprise. Maybe the designers figure this in-maybe not-we'll see.
I highly doubt that you would wear the teeth off the flywheel or starter. It would be interesting to stop by the UPS garage one time and ask.
I agree. Starting a fully warmed engine requires significantly less torque from the starter than one that is cold soaked. So.....The teeth are not subject to much wear.
Originally Posted By: Lapham3
If a guy thinks about it a bit, when your engine is shut off, the starter pinion to ring gear/flex stop locations will be repeatable around the ring circumference. How many locations will depend on how many cylinders. If the stop/start locations were completely random, it wouldn't matter as much, but as is, the wear will be more than one might think. If we hear later of transmissions having to be pulled to deal with this it wouldn't surprise. Maybe the designers figure this in-maybe not-we'll see.
I highly doubt that you would wear the teeth off the flywheel or starter. It would be interesting to stop by the UPS garage one time and ask.
I agree. Starting a fully warmed engine requires significantly less torque from the starter than one that is cold soaked. So.....The teeth are not subject to much wear.
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In the winter I often leave it run while I drop the kid (now kids - baby girl joined yesterday morning) off at daycare. With the expedition, the thought was to keep the oil warm so I would stop getting goo buildup under the cap. But I've learned after two winters with this vehicle that it is just the nature of the beast, so this winter I'll be more likely to shut it off than let it idle as I've learned it makes no difference to the amount of goo under the cap.
In the summer I usually shut it off unless it is really hot out and I'm picking up the kid ( now kids
) from daycare and that's strictly for creature comfort for the kiddo(s).
Shutting it off Or leaving it run causes me the exact same amount of worry or stress ... ZERO.
In the work truck I've idled it as much as 12 straight hours. If I have to be in the truck I'm not going to free to death or get heat stroke in the interest of saving resources or wear/tear. Got heat exhaustion once and frostbite once ....that's enough
In the summer I usually shut it off unless it is really hot out and I'm picking up the kid ( now kids
) from daycare and that's strictly for creature comfort for the kiddo(s).Shutting it off Or leaving it run causes me the exact same amount of worry or stress ... ZERO.
In the work truck I've idled it as much as 12 straight hours. If I have to be in the truck I'm not going to free to death or get heat stroke in the interest of saving resources or wear/tear. Got heat exhaustion once and frostbite once ....that's enough
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Originally Posted By: Lapham3
If a guy thinks about it a bit, when your engine is shut off, the starter pinion to ring gear/flex stop locations will be repeatable around the ring circumference. How many locations will depend on how many cylinders. If the stop/start locations were completely random, it wouldn't matter as much, but as is, the wear will be more than one might think. If we hear later of transmissions having to be pulled to deal with this it wouldn't surprise. Maybe the designers figure this in-maybe not-we'll see.
I thought some of these start/stop setups had some kind of brake or something to stop with the piston at the top of a compression stroke, then just pop the spark plug in that cylinder and off it would go? So the starter isn't needed most of the time.
If a guy thinks about it a bit, when your engine is shut off, the starter pinion to ring gear/flex stop locations will be repeatable around the ring circumference. How many locations will depend on how many cylinders. If the stop/start locations were completely random, it wouldn't matter as much, but as is, the wear will be more than one might think. If we hear later of transmissions having to be pulled to deal with this it wouldn't surprise. Maybe the designers figure this in-maybe not-we'll see.
I thought some of these start/stop setups had some kind of brake or something to stop with the piston at the top of a compression stroke, then just pop the spark plug in that cylinder and off it would go? So the starter isn't needed most of the time.
Originally Posted By: Snoman002
Originally Posted By: Lapham3
If a guy thinks about it a bit, when your engine is shut off, the starter pinion to ring gear/flex stop locations will be repeatable around the ring circumference. How many locations will depend on how many cylinders. If the stop/start locations were completely random, it wouldn't matter as much, but as is, the wear will be more than one might think. If we hear later of transmissions having to be pulled to deal with this it wouldn't surprise. Maybe the designers figure this in-maybe not-we'll see.
I highly doubt that you would wear the teeth off the flywheel or starter. It would be interesting to stop by the UPS garage one time and ask.
I've had to replace the ring gear off a few flywheels already due to wear.
Originally Posted By: Lapham3
If a guy thinks about it a bit, when your engine is shut off, the starter pinion to ring gear/flex stop locations will be repeatable around the ring circumference. How many locations will depend on how many cylinders. If the stop/start locations were completely random, it wouldn't matter as much, but as is, the wear will be more than one might think. If we hear later of transmissions having to be pulled to deal with this it wouldn't surprise. Maybe the designers figure this in-maybe not-we'll see.
I highly doubt that you would wear the teeth off the flywheel or starter. It would be interesting to stop by the UPS garage one time and ask.
I've had to replace the ring gear off a few flywheels already due to wear.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I thought some of these start/stop setups had some kind of brake or something to stop with the piston at the top of a compression stroke, then just pop the spark plug in that cylinder and off it would go? So the starter isn't needed most of the time.
can't be done, the compression gets through the rings in no time, taking the fuel with it.
But, the engine management remembers which cilinder will be next in the compression stroke so starting goes faster.
I thought some of these start/stop setups had some kind of brake or something to stop with the piston at the top of a compression stroke, then just pop the spark plug in that cylinder and off it would go? So the starter isn't needed most of the time.
can't be done, the compression gets through the rings in no time, taking the fuel with it.
But, the engine management remembers which cilinder will be next in the compression stroke so starting goes faster.
Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
I agree. Starting a fully warmed engine requires significantly less torque from the starter than one that is cold soaked. So.....The teeth are not subject to much wear.
it's the sides of the teeth that wear away, where the starter hits them before engaging properly.
I agree. Starting a fully warmed engine requires significantly less torque from the starter than one that is cold soaked. So.....The teeth are not subject to much wear.
it's the sides of the teeth that wear away, where the starter hits them before engaging properly.
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I thought some of these start/stop setups had some kind of brake or something to stop with the piston at the top of a compression stroke, then just pop the spark plug in that cylinder and off it would go? So the starter isn't needed most of the time.
can't be done, the compression gets through the rings in no time, taking the fuel with it.
But, the engine management remembers which cilinder will be next in the compression stroke so starting goes faster.
Even the DI motors? I guess I should google it. Google tells me that only mazda is doing this and they still use some starter motor assist. Cuts starting time in half though they claim.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I thought some of these start/stop setups had some kind of brake or something to stop with the piston at the top of a compression stroke, then just pop the spark plug in that cylinder and off it would go? So the starter isn't needed most of the time.
can't be done, the compression gets through the rings in no time, taking the fuel with it.
But, the engine management remembers which cilinder will be next in the compression stroke so starting goes faster.
Even the DI motors? I guess I should google it. Google tells me that only mazda is doing this and they still use some starter motor assist. Cuts starting time in half though they claim.
with DI motors there would only be air escaping to the sump, but the compression still drops off.
Leave it running. Gotta maintain the engine oil temperature so I don't get sludge and varnish.
j/k
j/k
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Solarent
I was driving a jeep cherokee recently (rental vehicle) and the engine shuts off at every stop light. The first time it happened I almost had a heart attack - I thought that the rental company had given me a lemon and it was a long drive back to exchange it. The car wouldn't give us the option of idling at the gas station.
I hope that feature doesn't become standard on new vehicles because I think I will loose my mind.
It's coming, and trust me people will be disabling it or looking for ways to do so.
My son just got a new Cherokee and it does this stuff. He told me there is a switch you can set at each time you REALLY start the vehicle that will disable the auto shutdown feature. So would seem no one really has to "override" something, as the OEM already provides that.
Originally Posted By: Solarent
I was driving a jeep cherokee recently (rental vehicle) and the engine shuts off at every stop light. The first time it happened I almost had a heart attack - I thought that the rental company had given me a lemon and it was a long drive back to exchange it. The car wouldn't give us the option of idling at the gas station.
I hope that feature doesn't become standard on new vehicles because I think I will loose my mind.
It's coming, and trust me people will be disabling it or looking for ways to do so.
My son just got a new Cherokee and it does this stuff. He told me there is a switch you can set at each time you REALLY start the vehicle that will disable the auto shutdown feature. So would seem no one really has to "override" something, as the OEM already provides that.
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I thought some of these start/stop setups had some kind of brake or something to stop with the piston at the top of a compression stroke, then just pop the spark plug in that cylinder and off it would go? So the starter isn't needed most of the time.
can't be done, the compression gets through the rings in no time, taking the fuel with it.
But, the engine management remembers which cilinder will be next in the compression stroke so starting goes faster.
I'd agree, but years ago one of my friends had a '77 or so Ford Econoline 6cyl that would once in maybe 40-50 times restart when hot at switch on without cranking it... He was just as big a gear head as myself, so I know it was true...
Still I doubt the process could ever be perfected to the point as to be reliable...
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I thought some of these start/stop setups had some kind of brake or something to stop with the piston at the top of a compression stroke, then just pop the spark plug in that cylinder and off it would go? So the starter isn't needed most of the time.
can't be done, the compression gets through the rings in no time, taking the fuel with it.
But, the engine management remembers which cilinder will be next in the compression stroke so starting goes faster.
I'd agree, but years ago one of my friends had a '77 or so Ford Econoline 6cyl that would once in maybe 40-50 times restart when hot at switch on without cranking it... He was just as big a gear head as myself, so I know it was true...
Still I doubt the process could ever be perfected to the point as to be reliable...
Great in hot climates if the AC compressor stops at every light.
what about the starter....it of course wears more each time you start. I would guess though that UPS did a pretty extensive study and concluded that stopping the motor is cheaper. Then again, maybe they too are concerned some kid someday would steal one of their trucks...
I always keep the engine running. If its filling up gas, or taking a 1,300 mile trip the engine never shuts off. I dont like the idea of the oil "cooking" or sitting on the hot cylinder walls during shut-off. This practice has also eliminated all my oil burn and no longer need to "top off" my oil between changes. Just my 2 cents..
Originally Posted By: Rex
I always keep the engine running. If its filling up gas, or taking a 1,300 mile trip the engine never shuts off. I dont like the idea of the oil "cooking" or sitting on the hot cylinder walls during shut-off. This practice has also eliminated all my oil burn and no longer need to "top off" my oil between changes. Just my 2 cents..
Well, that does not compute. Like I mentioned in a earlier post, hybrid engines shut on and off many times per mile, with no problem. I figure the Camry hybrid engine I had with 183kmi on it had million+ start/stops on it, and ran perfect, until it got wrecked by someone else. It really was a great car. Still ran/drove like new, and the original brakes where not even half worn.
I always keep the engine running. If its filling up gas, or taking a 1,300 mile trip the engine never shuts off. I dont like the idea of the oil "cooking" or sitting on the hot cylinder walls during shut-off. This practice has also eliminated all my oil burn and no longer need to "top off" my oil between changes. Just my 2 cents..
Well, that does not compute. Like I mentioned in a earlier post, hybrid engines shut on and off many times per mile, with no problem. I figure the Camry hybrid engine I had with 183kmi on it had million+ start/stops on it, and ran perfect, until it got wrecked by someone else. It really was a great car. Still ran/drove like new, and the original brakes where not even half worn.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Solarent
I was driving a jeep cherokee recently (rental vehicle) and the engine shuts off at every stop light. The first time it happened I almost had a heart attack - I thought that the rental company had given me a lemon and it was a long drive back to exchange it. The car wouldn't give us the option of idling at the gas station.
I hope that feature doesn't become standard on new vehicles because I think I will loose my mind.
It's coming, and trust me people will be disabling it or looking for ways to do so.
My son just got a new Cherokee and it does this stuff. He told me there is a switch you can set at each time you REALLY start the vehicle that will disable the auto shutdown feature. So would seem no one really has to "override" something, as the OEM already provides that.
As long as it remains that way, I don't have a problem with it. OTOH if they don't have a way to switch it off, it will probably become a popular money maker in the aftermarket.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Solarent
I was driving a jeep cherokee recently (rental vehicle) and the engine shuts off at every stop light. The first time it happened I almost had a heart attack - I thought that the rental company had given me a lemon and it was a long drive back to exchange it. The car wouldn't give us the option of idling at the gas station.
I hope that feature doesn't become standard on new vehicles because I think I will loose my mind.
It's coming, and trust me people will be disabling it or looking for ways to do so.
My son just got a new Cherokee and it does this stuff. He told me there is a switch you can set at each time you REALLY start the vehicle that will disable the auto shutdown feature. So would seem no one really has to "override" something, as the OEM already provides that.
As long as it remains that way, I don't have a problem with it. OTOH if they don't have a way to switch it off, it will probably become a popular money maker in the aftermarket.
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