Sludge Monster advice

[Merkava_4]

Go straight to full synthetic. That'll clean everything up inside that engine. The oil will get
dark real quick which means it's scrubbing all that grime off. Maybe something like Mobil 1.

 

[artificialist]

You will not have a problem continuing to run conventional and change every 3000 miles. Having some simple high mileage oil may be better.

 

[mjk]

I am on my 2nd 1mzfe. 1st was a 96 Camry, sold with 255k. I am now on a 01 Avalon, with 155k.

I had records of every oil change, since the Camry was bought. The intervals varied from about 2.5k to 3.3k, prior to me buying it with 126k on it.

I replaced the valve cover gaskets around 220k, and I had varnish, but no sludge. Wasn't all that worried about it. At 255k, it went through the same amount of oil as it did with 126k (1 qt/2200 miles).

My Avalon shows no signs of using oil, thus far. Hoping to run it to about 275k.

 

[Jake777]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I am surprised to hear you all say I could get 5-7k out of M1 or PP on this motor I guess I thought it was harder on oil than that. I really like the price on MK5 at walmart down the road perhaps I will stick with 3k oci and that. Good to know some of you have the same motor and havent had any trouble. Not sure the brand the local shop used but again the dipstick is clean so i guess i was just fooled by that baffle under the cap or whatever it is. Does everyone here think the MK5 can almost always do 5k runs for the most part?

 

[camrydriver111]

Way over hyped. It's supposed to sludge yet the 1MZ-FE is also considered one of the most reliable Toyota engines.

Oil has improved since 1997 as well.

I think you could easily run 5k on dino in that engine.

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: Jake777
I just notice Mobil says if switching a high mileage car to Mobil 1 HM run 3 short OCI due to the grime that is likely to be washed away by the higher cleaning power of that oil. ............. Perhaps I am over thinking it and need to stick with dino oil on the Avalon wouldn't want it to die with more money in the sump than its worth LOL.... As for the Odyssey it needs to run for a ...........


More important keep changing the oil filter more often during the switch over period.

I would change the oil filter around initial at 500 to 800 miles pending how much crud and rate it is being removed. A hint on this is keep an eye on the tail pipe any hint of burning oil change the filter or drop the oil as there may be too much loose debris and filter goes into bypass.

You will get it clean slow and gentle is best. You will get it clean slow and gentle is best.

I would go for the OEM approved oil mineral or semi syn (on sale) for the year of vehicle if there is one and get a heap a oil filters for the process. Even if it takes 5 to 6 short OCIs to clean it So What. You will be able to tell when you drain the oil you will see its condition and you/ or mechanic will get to know when its time revert back to normal OCI as you will be able to make a comparison to the previous oil condition at OCI change.

I would stay away from high detergency oils to prevent rapid loosening of crud into the system. Remember if it clean its clean it doesn't need to be spotless.

I would not use a "full syn" for this vehicle period. Keep it simple. Keep it cheap.

 

[Oro_O]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
[
The issues with some 1MZ-FE engines is not a myth, I have seen it first-hand. The PVC system on the earlier engines is poorly designed and the head temperature (especially in the rear bank) is very high. Later 1MZ-FE engines had modifications to address the issues plus a lower recommended OCI from Toyota.

The one affected engine I saw was short-tripped in cold weather with long OCIs on bulk dino. Even from the affected years, not all 1MZ-FE engines were equally susceptible.

Just because you have a later, unaffected 1MZ-FE that doesn't mean the issue was a myth. Way over-hyped yes, but not a myth.


And there you go, myth destroyed. VW, GM engines will sludge with the same abuse you describe. The problem is people like to abuse Toyotas because they think they can, and the company will protect the brand by paying to settle torts.

The fact is, no one has demonstrated sludging in a non-abused engine, and in conditions that wouldn't affect other makers engines, too. There are plenty of engine bay designs that run equally hot and with similar or lesser PCV arrangements.

I also have to point what Camrydriver111 says, it can't both be a self-destroying engine AND widely considered one of the best V6s ever built. Can't have it both ways, honestly. Much more reliable than the GR and some newer designs.

 

[ryanschillinger]

The Toyota 3.0 v6 engine is a good one to avoid. Not because of sludge, but constantly blowing head gaskets. Look on Craigslist. Most of the Toyota v6 of that era are advertised as either needing head gasket replacement or recently replaced head gaskets. One of my friends used to specifically buy those at auction because he could replace the head gaskets pretty quickly and resell the cars for a profit. Nobody else would want to bid on the Lexus or toyotas puffing smoke so he would get quite a deal.

 

[Greg L]

Definitely change out your PCV valve.

Did mine at the 70k mile mark. Local service said it should be done on my 2000 Camry, with same motor you have.

Then I continued on with my regular oil changes, except I switched from Valvoline DuraBlend to M1. Never had issues.


EM

 

[jdavis]

This thread is useless without pics.

 

[askani79705]

Originally Posted By: Jake777
Thanks everyone for the advice. I am surprised to hear you all say I could get 5-7k out of M1 or PP on this motor I guess I thought it was harder on oil than that. I really like the price on MK5 at walmart down the road perhaps I will stick with 3k oci and that. Good to know some of you have the same motor and havent had any trouble. Not sure the brand the local shop used but again the dipstick is clean so i guess i was just fooled by that baffle under the cap or whatever it is. Does everyone here think the MK5 can almost always do 5k runs for the most part?


Yes, I think it could run 5k with no ill effect. QSGB will as well,I had a Toyota truck (3.0 liter) go over 260k miles on Quaker State.

 

[Joel_MD]

My 2003 Saab with the B235L 2.3L engine is a notorious sludge-o-matic. I got this one about two years ago at 136k miles. The previous owner had it maintained at the Saab dealer, so it probably got Mobil 1 oil all its life. It also had the factory recommended PCV update, which was supposed to remedy the sludging tendency. I've changed the oil often, using Mobil 1 0W-40. Sometimes I used Gunk Motor Flush before changing the oil. Anyway, earlier this year at about 147k miles I had a highly experienced Saab mechanic remove the oil pan to inspect/clean and change the o-rings for the oil pump pickup assembly. He said it was one of the worst sludged engines he had seen that was still running, mumbling something about using a "case of brake cleaner" to clean it up, lol. There was a pyramidal-shaped pile of sludge directly under the oil pickup. Anyway, he cleaned it up and I've put 5k miles on the engine since. I feel like having that oil pan removed for cleaning probably saved the motor from imminent destruction. Since then I also removed the valve cover to inspect and clean. The valve train was looking good but the cover had a lot of built-up black crud all over the inside. I had an engine shop dunk the valve cover in their ultrasonic cleaner and it came out pristine. I have a feeling that the sludge comes from the location of one of the catalytic converters, which is snuggled up next to the aluminum oil pan. It's constantly radiating heat into the oil pan. I think my next modification will be to replace the downpipe and forget about the cats.

 

[KCJeep]

^^^^ Wow now that's a sludger!

 

[DoubleWasp]

Cat under the oil pan. Lol. Move it back or trash.

Shame is you can't even wrap those things to prevent the baking, because the cat overheat will kill it if it can't cool off.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: ryanschillinger
The Toyota 3.0 v6 engine is a good one to avoid. Not because of sludge, but constantly blowing head gaskets. Look on Craigslist. Most of the Toyota v6 of that era are advertised as either needing head gasket replacement or recently replaced head gaskets. One of my friends used to specifically buy those at auction because he could replace the head gaskets pretty quickly and resell the cars for a profit. Nobody else would want to bid on the Lexus or toyotas puffing smoke so he would get quite a deal.

Toyota made a 3.0L SOHC engine that blew head gaskets regularly, but not a 3.0L DOHC engine.

 

[tiger862]

Toyota sludge motors were recalled and cleaned. Reason was 7500 mile oil change according to Toyota. Seen some really bad ones. Toyota had us take covers and pan off and pressure wash then put back together. If it blew then replace engine other than that it was ok. Run Synthetic for 5k and change PCV. Don't touch just change oil until it starts using oil.

 

[Joe90_guy]

Calcium (and Magnesium) exist in oils in the form of over-based detergents. Their primary function is to neutralise weak acids formed by the combustion process. The main problem with acids is not that they would corrode your engine (although they would do that a bit); it's mainly because these acids catalyse the rapid oxidation of the oil. It's this oxidation that can lead to sudden sludge formation.

Once you have sludge in an engine, detergents don't really do much to clean it up. What you really need to clean up your engine (assuming that you really do want to open that particular can of worms!) is an oil that contains a lot if ashless dispersant. You can't 'see' ashless on a typical oil analysis because they contain no metal. Even if you have a nitrogen done, it's not easy to infer his much ashless you have.

However one thing is very true and that is diesel oils contain a lot more ashless than oils for gasoline cars because they need it for soot handling. If you want to clean to your Avalon, plop some HDDO in it. However, speaking personally, I would leave well alone. Ashless dispersants don't dissolve sludge instantly. What they tend to do is weaken it and then dislodge it. The engine will then mash it it and the dispersant will hold it up. It's the 'dislodging' bit where things can get weird. Think blood clots and strokes. Same thing!

 

[thrace]

Want to check sludge. Any way short of removing valve covers to check sludge? How hard is it to remove valve cover on 2001 Toyota Sienna V6?
Looking to buy from a friend but want to check for sludge by removing front valve cover gasket?
Can you reuse valve cover bolts?
Must coolant hose over passenger side of engine be removed?
Need to use all new valve cover bolts? Thanks.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: thrace
Want to check sludge. Any way short of removing valve covers to check sludge?
How hard is it to remove valve cover on 2001 Toyota Sienna V6?
Looking to buy from a friend but want to check for sludge by removing front valve cover gasket?
Can you reuse valve cover bolts?
Must coolant hose over passenger side of engine be removed?
Need to use all new valve cover bolts? Thanks.


No.

Easy.

I think you mean the whole cover, not just the gasket.

Maybe.

No.

Maybe.

The issue with the cover bolts is that they use crushable washers for hold-down pressure. The bolts themselves are shouldered and bottom out in the head. Whatever you do, don't over torque them as it won't help sealing at all. Some people have put an extra washer from the hardware store on the stack to give more hold down force. I buy new ones.

 

[CELICA_XX]

Originally Posted By: The_Eric
I don't know why people seem to think that PP or other high detergent syns are going to do some immediate and massive cleaning?- as if they were some kind of harsh chemical flush.


The Pennzoil "cleaning" myth has really taken ahold on this forum.

I used PUP for 60,000 miles and it did absolutely nothing. (besides rapidly burning out of my crankcase)