ADM and the ethanol mandate

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: SOHCman
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
There are many laws that can be considered mandates. They are for the good of the overall populous such as a mandate to have car insurance. A mandate that manufactures put airbags in cars. A mandate that manufactures achieve MPG ratings, so on and so forth. This is nothing new and is a necessary part of living in a civilized society


Nothing about ethanol or the politics driving ethanol are a necessary part of living in a civilized society. You and trucker seem to have been drinking a bit much of the ethanol koolaide.

Too bad there isn't a mandate for hogwash because you guys are shoveling plenty of it.
Beware gubbermint stooges telling you somnething is good for you (and not their friends selling the stufF).

 

[DBMaster]

Hey, I like ethanol kool-aid. We used to call it trashcan punch.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted By: SOHCman
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
There are many laws that can be considered mandates. They are for the good of the overall populous such as a mandate to have car insurance. A mandate that manufactures put airbags in cars. A mandate that manufactures achieve MPG ratings, so on and so forth. This is nothing new and is a necessary part of living in a civilized society


Nothing about ethanol or the politics driving ethanol are a necessary part of living in a civilized society. You and trucker seem to have been drinking a bit much of the ethanol koolaide.

Too bad there isn't a mandate for hogwash because you guys are shoveling plenty of it.


Ok, I'll bite.

What did I say was in error? If there was a federal mandate that all fuel had to have ethanol in it, then why do I have E0 regular and premium available in every town around me throughout the year? There is a mandate regarding the RFS thing, but there is no mandate at the federal level that ethanol free cannot be available also for the consumer to buy. That is purely a state directed thing. Your gripes about ethanol and having to purchase it should be directed at your state capitol. The EPA directed Renewable Fuel Standard only specifies the total amount of ethanol, not that everyone has to buy it. It can be served up as E10, E15, E20, E30, or E85, however a station wants to sell it and who wants it.

Even with ethanol free fuel available to anyone who wants to buy it is a fact in my area, E10 still outsells the ethanol free by a considerable margin. It offers a better value for most folks, and we have had it available since at least the early 80's. I have been buying E15 for most of this year because it offers the best value on a cost per mile basis. Many of us have used ethanol blends for decades and have had no problems. But our hired help in Des Moines still has the citizen in mind regarding this and allows ethanol free fuel to be sold by and to anyone. I pickup some ethanol free occasionally for a couple of small engines I use. And this is a state government that is in the back pocket of the corn and ethanol folks since agriculture is the 400 lb guerrilla here. The corn and ethanol folks are not having a fit that ethanol free fuel is available. The feds could give a rip also. Your problem is with your state. The ethanol lobby or the feds are not to blame.

And the closing prices I mentioned on the fuels. Go onto the commodities exchanges and see for yourself. No ethanol "koolaid" drinker here. Just someone who takes issues with falsehoods that are passed out like facts. If ethanol goes away tomorrow, I will just continue on and have no emotional concerns. I can take it or leave it. Just like I can take it or leave it now of my free will and the government isn't restricting my choice.

Looks like you need to change your vote for your state folks or move. But I also realize that most issues today are decided based on emotion instead of analysis.

 

[SOHCman]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: SOHCman
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
There are many laws that can be considered mandates. They are for the good of the overall populous such as a mandate to have car insurance. A mandate that manufactures put airbags in cars. A mandate that manufactures achieve MPG ratings, so on and so forth. This is nothing new and is a necessary part of living in a civilized society


Nothing about ethanol or the politics driving ethanol are a necessary part of living in a civilized society. You and trucker seem to have been drinking a bit much of the ethanol koolaide.

Too bad there isn't a mandate for hogwash because you guys are shoveling plenty of it.


Ok, I'll bite.

What did I say was in error? If there was a federal mandate that all fuel had to have ethanol in it, then why do I have E0 regular and premium available in every town around me throughout the year? There is a mandate regarding the RFS thing, but there is no mandate at the federal level that ethanol free cannot be available also for the consumer to buy. That is purely a state directed thing. Your gripes about ethanol and having to purchase it should be directed at your state capitol. The EPA directed Renewable Fuel Standard only specifies the total amount of ethanol, not that everyone has to buy it. It can be served up as E10, E15, E20, E30, or E85, however a station wants to sell it and who wants it.

Even with ethanol free fuel available to anyone who wants to buy it is a fact in my area, E10 still outsells the ethanol free by a considerable margin. It offers a better value for most folks, and we have had it available since at least the early 80's. I have been buying E15 for most of this year because it offers the best value on a cost per mile basis. Many of us have used ethanol blends for decades and have had no problems. But our hired help in Des Moines still has the citizen in mind regarding this and allows ethanol free fuel to be sold by and to anyone. I pickup some ethanol free occasionally for a couple of small engines I use. And this is a state government that is in the back pocket of the corn and ethanol folks since agriculture is the 400 lb guerrilla here. The corn and ethanol folks are not having a fit that ethanol free fuel is available. The feds could give a rip also. Your problem is with your state. The ethanol lobby or the feds are not to blame.

And the closing prices I mentioned on the fuels. Go onto the commodities exchanges and see for yourself. No ethanol "koolaid" drinker here. Just someone who takes issues with falsehoods that are passed out like facts. If ethanol goes away tomorrow, I will just continue on and have no emotional concerns. I can take it or leave it. Just like I can take it or leave it now of my free will and the government isn't restricting my choice.

Looks like you need to change your vote for your state folks or move. But I also realize that most issues today are decided based on emotion instead of analysis.


Chug Chug Chug, careful it's denatured...

 

[turtlevette]

What did i say about the anti ethanol side. Scroll up and look at their posts. Not a strong case for intelligent life.

Clean air and energy security are too important to allow hayseeds to opt out because they are scared its going to hurt their poopbox car.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Here, it was Husky/Mohawk giving midgrade at regular price, and that was a decent incentive. They were also one of the first places here to use loyalty points, as in a bonus for CAA members. In all, it was a pretty attractive place to buy gas. Now, the whole Husky Energy sales model is a bit of a mess. The CAA thing got gutted then trashed, as of the end of this month. And the mandate did Husky/Mohawk no favours, since what differentiated themselves from the competition became dumbed down and mandated across the board.


Exactly.
90 octane for the price of regular. Then one day I pulled up to the pumps and it said 87 octane.
I didn't buy gas there that day and now only will if I absolutely have to

 

[Garak]

Yep, I rarely buy there, except lately, to get my last CAA dollars, since that's ending in 9 days. What a mess!

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
What did i say about the anti ethanol side. Scroll up and look at their posts. Not a strong case for intelligent life.

Clean air and energy security are too important to allow hayseeds to opt out because they are scared its going to hurt their poopbox car.



Gotta love the ad hominem attacks! Hayseeds! That is good. You are classic. Since you can't opt out you think no one else should be able to. No different than class warfare that goes on in the culture. If one person can't be well off, then no one should be well off. Or the flip side, some have a full handle on how things should be and demand that everyone else conform to their view of the world.

Not sure how old you are, but I can sure remember the air and water conditions of the 60's and early 70's. This is darn near a paradise compared to those days. And finding it a bit of the stretch in your argument summary that would suggest that ethanol is going to provide cleaner air and energy security. It is simply an alternative fuel. One should be free to use it or not. It has positives and negatives, just like any other fuel.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker



Gotta love the ad hominem attacks! Hayseeds! That is good. You are classic. Since you can't opt out you think no one else should be able to. No different than class warfare that goes on in the culture. If one person can't be well off, then no one should be well off. Or the flip side, some have a full handle on how things should be and demand that everyone else conform to their view of the world.

Not sure how old you are, but I can sure remember the air and water conditions of the 60's and early 70's. This is darn near a paradise compared to those days. And finding it a bit of the stretch in your argument summary that would suggest that ethanol is going to provide cleaner air and energy security. It is simply an alternative fuel. One should be free to use it or not. It has positives and negatives, just like any other fuel.


Can you bring yourself to consider that we have better air now because most civilized states have been using ethanol for 30years. Your arguments don't make sense. Read what you wrote again when you sober up.

Yes let's just let everyone decide what they want to opt out of. Maybe some states don't want to follow any EPA laws. Maybe some don't want to recognize civil rights. No problem. Let it slide and call it freedom.

Did you see some of these guys responses in the church killings thread. Very eye opening for me. Extremists. And worse. You best consider who you're budding up with.

 

[Shannow]

tiurtlevette, I know that you considered your education complete the day you got your qualifications, but they haven't been mass producing carburetted vehicles for quite some time...which was the reason for oxygenates.

I think EFI and Cat Cons are probably pretty OK these days

 

[SteveSRT8]

You'd think that poor ole turtle could at least realize that we don't all march in lock step here unlike his favorite sites where people only reflect back views he is comfortable with.

Using words like "hayseeds" and the currently very popular "extremists" reveals the incredible attitude of a true believer. They really do think they know it all and can save us!

Sad to see such a "follower". Imagining you are the smartest guy in the room only illustrates how books and degrees do little for your real intelligence...

 

[SOHCman]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette


I've heard the mantra of your kind and know it by heart. Eliminate the EPA, nuke the whales, blah blah blah cause you know better because you're so old. The government is all a conspiracy and provides no useful purpose. The world is falling apart because someone who doesn't look like you is in charge. You're scared.


And let's not forget this gem... Turtlevette race-baits and calls us hayseeds or extremists. All for simply having a different point of view.

Typical lefty thinking they know better than everyone else...

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Ethanol is not being subsidized. Why do you think ethanol in fuel is a liberal thing? Bush started the ramp up.



It's a bipartisan mess. Both parties went for it. But the Repbulicans abandoned their principles (if they even knew what they were) by mandating an economic outcome in the free market.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Well, all political parties have abandoned any ideas of American principles a long time ago. Both parties have agendas and usually they are in line with each other. They just throw spit balls back and forth for the public consumption. So what, the Democrat party is now, for all intents and purposes, the modern Communist party. I suggest anyone read the party platform and compare it to the Socialist Workers party platform during the 1960 election cycle. Spooky.

The Republicans want a more pseudo Facist type of government. They believe if private ownership, but you have to pay to play and adhere to the party line. They are not, in general, fond of true free enterprise and entrepreneurship. Well, they are, but only if you play by their rules.

 

[SteveSRT8]

I am in absolute agreement that the Two parties are nearly the same. Both controlled by huge corporate interests and NOT doing anything that is the desire of their constituents except a little lip service.

The sad part is that folks just eat it up without question if it reflects what they think. Expand your circle of friends to include folks who make you uncomfortable with their views. You'll likely learn something and develop more well rounded viewpoints...

 

[TiredTrucker]

It is more of a quid pro quo between politicians and some of the mega business entities rather than one controlling the other. They each massage the other.