2016 Honda Pilot vs 2015 Dodge Durango

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: Phishin
One thing I've learned over the past 18 years of car ownership, is don't buy a big heavy van or SUV built on a car frame!!! I would never buy a Honda Pilot or Honda Oddessy. I would never buy a Dodge Durango either. The components on these vehicles are STRESSED to the max by the weight of these heavy things.


Absurdist drivel. I own high mileage Pilot and a Dakota, and my Pilot is way, way, way tighter. For one thing, the Pilot has a FULL LENGTH FULL FRAME- and it's welded on! Anyway modern Pilot's and Durango's aren't really a "big heavy van or SUV".

The advantages of a frame is you can cheaply lift the vehicle for big tires, or yank the bed and do certain kinds of service easier. That's it. For towing either kind of frame is fine IN THIS CLASS OF VEHICLE.

 

[cptbarkey]

Originally Posted By: Phishin
Highest selling usually means the cheapest.


try not to confuse cheapest with how the majority also usually makes the smarter decision.

 

[Phishin]

Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Originally Posted By: Phishin
Highest selling usually means the cheapest.


try not to confuse cheapest with how the majority also usually makes the smarter decision.


That's exactly what I'm doing. The majority of the population are the exact opposite of BITOG'ers. They are "payment" buyers and buy the newest/fanciest vehicle that fits under the amount the bank will give them.

In America, the highest selling ANYTHING is >95% of the time the cheapest option there is, within reason. I don't care if you're talking about: cars, trucks, boats, lawn mowers, outboard motors, etc. etc. Consumers are VERY uniformed. And most choose price over quality, without batting an eye.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: HangFire
For one thing, the Pilot has a FULL LENGTH FULL FRAME- and it's welded on!

Your Pilot has a unibody.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: HangFire
For one thing, the Pilot has a FULL LENGTH FULL FRAME- and it's welded on!

Your Pilot has a unibody.


Yes, a unibody with full length frame rails welded to the bottom. Just take a look under any first gen.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Srt20
A unibody chassis will handle much much better than any frame chassis. That's not even a debate.

The 2016 durango will not receive any major changes. Little stuff like stereo, colors, etc.

The durango will get a update in 2017 IIRC.





I saw a few articles a day or so before this post that stated that the Durango was being discontinued.

 

[cptbarkey]

Originally Posted By: Phishin
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Originally Posted By: Phishin
Highest selling usually means the cheapest.


try not to confuse cheapest with how the majority also usually makes the smarter decision.


That's exactly what I'm doing. The majority of the population are the exact opposite of BITOG'ers. They are "payment" buyers and buy the newest/fanciest vehicle that fits under the amount the bank will give them.

In America, the highest selling ANYTHING is >95% of the time the cheapest option there is, within reason. I don't care if you're talking about: cars, trucks, boats, lawn mowers, outboard motors, etc. etc. Consumers are VERY uniformed. And most choose price over quality, without batting an eye.


You are putting BITOG users on a high pedestal. Frankly, its just people who found there way on the internet, it has little to do with intelligence or wisdom.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: Phishin


If you want 3 row seating just for hauling kids arounds....a unibody SUV will suit you just fine.



That pretty much sums up why there are so few truck based or solid axle choices anymore. A large percentage of buyers were willing to trade capability and truck-like characteristics for comfort and car-like characteristics. I prefer truck-based SUVs, and it does bug me a little when the manufacturers take a name like "Explorer" or "Cherokee" (that was unibody, but with a highly capable suspension) and stick it on a FWD with rubber band tires, but the majority of people who buy SUVs are not interested in going off road. The manufacturers are going to focus on what a majority of buyers are looking for, which usually isn't solid axles, frames, selectable t-cases, etc.

That said, I keep seeing in car magazines and such that the Durango probably won't be around much longer, so I would anticipate it taking more than the usual Chrysler depreciation hit. If that's not a big concern, it could offer a lot more bang for the buck up front than the first year of a new Pilot.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: Phishin
... They are "payment" buyers and buy the newest/fanciest vehicle that fits under the amount the bank will give them.

...


My brother will be paying cash.

He is not a minivan type of person, and neither is his wife.

They are replacing their Tahoe with over 135k soccer mom miles on it, and looked at another Tahoe first but the cost was, shall we say, prohibitive - even for used.

Thanks everyone for the comments so far.

 

[mtndew_dad]

Originally Posted By: Phishin
One thing I've learned over the past 18 years of car ownership, is don't buy a big heavy van or SUV built on a car frame!!! I would never buy a Honda Pilot or Honda Oddessy. I would never buy a Dodge Durango either. The components on these vehicles are STRESSED to the max by the weight of these heavy things.

I'm in the market for a full size SUV/van and I'm only considering a one built on a truck frame with truck suspension, truck steering, truck brakes, truck transmission, and truck engine. I'm a Chevy guy, so I need to decide between a Chevy Express van (12 passenger) or a Suburban. Perhaps a Yukon/Tahoe.

Now, if you are all about "styling" and not about function and longevity, then buy a Durango or Pilot, and trade it in every 3-4 years around the 50-60k mile mark.


Well, If you need a full sized van with an unfinished interior to haul work materials, like plumbing or electrical supplies, by all means get Chevy Express. Better yet, take a look at the new Ford Transit (designed in this decade). If you need a vehicle to transport humans, an Odyssey is way better. Over stressed you say. I have two friends with REAL TRUCKS, with truck brakes, truck engine, truck whatever. At 100,000 miles these TRUCKS are falling apart. The list of repairs and TRUCK parts that they have had to repair/replace is stunning in comparison to my Odyssey, which has been "over stressed" for 150,000 miles and has only needed normal maintenance. The gas savings alone is huge. Say what you want, but Honda's in general are very well engineered.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Here's our Pilot (okay, it's an MDX, but same thing) with all three rows of seats occupied and luggage hanging off the back. This was last weekend, on a trip to Pittsburgh from North Carolina. It was about 1,300 miles in all and we averaged 20.23 mpg.

It handled like a champ. In fact, despite being decried by some, the rear suspension adds some negative camber and toe under load, so it's at least as stable loaded down as it is when empty.

Our previous minivan, with a solid beam rear axle, was pretty sketchy when loaded -- it was way underdamped and the rear alignment stayed completely neutral (which doesn't add any stability!).

(JHZR2: check out the wheel center cap alignment!

)

 

[HangFire]

Yup the Honda Pilot and Ridgeline were designed to tow, after Honda dealers demanded something that could tow AquaTrax (Honda's JetSki) and Honda motorcycles.

The fact that the frame exists, and being welded to the bottom is STIFFER than body-on-frame pickup designs, is completely lost of the folks who insist these are not real trucks and think they cannot do any real work.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: HangFire
Yup the Honda Pilot and Ridgeline were designed to tow, after Honda dealers demanded something that could tow AquaTrax (Honda's JetSki) and Honda motorcycles.

The fact that the frame exists, and being welded to the bottom is STIFFER than body-on-frame pickup designs, is completely lost of the folks who insist these are not real trucks and think they cannot do any real work.


If you can't tow the space shuttle then clearly your "truck" is not sufficent.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: HangFire
Yup the Honda Pilot and Ridgeline were designed to tow, after Honda dealers demanded something that could tow AquaTrax (Honda's JetSki) and Honda motorcycles.

The fact that the frame exists, and being welded to the bottom is STIFFER than body-on-frame pickup designs, is completely lost of the folks who insist these are not real trucks and think they cannot do any real work.


Honda OPE and motorcycle dealers are usually totally different entities from Honda car dealers. I can't see the AquaTrax having much of anything to do with the Pilot or Ridgeline.

I don't really think anything in that size class is "designed to tow," but the Ridgeline and Pilot are as capable as they need to be, and their towing capability is on par for the class.

As for the frame...it looks like sheet metal. Not quite like they took a full thickness truck ladder frame and just welded it to the bottom of the body, but maybe it is thicker than it looks. Either way, it works for a vehicle of that size and intended purpose. The Cherokee was unibody, and I believe the Comanche pickup was a partial unibody.

The Ridgeline can do plenty of work, but it also does make compromises for comfort. Nothing wrong with that. It's for a different end user than a 3/4 ton diesel, or a manual everything body on frame 4x4 mini truck like my older Ranger.

 

[CoconutTelegraph]

My wife and were looking into a larger vehicle for our family. She's loyal to toyota, so that's where we started. She didn't want the "minivan stigma" so we avoided those. We looked at the 4Runner and the highlanders. At the time, the fwd highlander tow rating was 5000lbs. The full frame, solid axle rwd 4Runner 4700lbs.
I really wanted to look at other makes. She liked the pilot. Hated the explorer( she hates all things ford). I was wanting to try out the Dodge Durango but her uncle passed and we inherited his caravan which filled our needs.
I'm still impressed by the Durango and I would like to try to rent one for a weekend to try it out without a salesman pressuring us but I'm a little weary after the caravan problems I've had. I've read the Durango was plagued with TIPM problems and recently heard of a "do not drive" recall where Fiat will send someone out to inspect the Durango/ grand Cherokee before its deemed safe.
https://www.cars.com/articles/recall-alert-2015-jeep-grand-cherokee-dodge-durango-1420680673143/
I've also read the Durango might soon be replaced by a 3rd row jeep offering.

 

[Srt20]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Srt20
A unibody chassis will handle much much better than any frame chassis. That's not even a debate.

The 2016 durango will not receive any major changes. Little stuff like stereo, colors, etc.

The durango will get a update in 2017 IIRC.





I saw a few articles a day or so before this post that stated that the Durango was being discontinued.


http://vehiclesupdate.com/2017-dodge-durango-redesign-release-date-and-price/

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: Srt20
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Srt20
A unibody chassis will handle much much better than any frame chassis. That's not even a debate.

The 2016 durango will not receive any major changes. Little stuff like stereo, colors, etc.

The durango will get a update in 2017 IIRC.





I saw a few articles a day or so before this post that stated that the Durango was being discontinued.


http://vehiclesupdate.com/2017-dodge-durango-redesign-release-date-and-price/
Originally Posted By: Srt20
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Srt20
A unibody chassis will handle much much better than any frame chassis. That's not even a debate.

The 2016 durango will not receive any major changes. Little stuff like stereo, colors, etc.

The durango will get a update in 2017 IIRC.





I saw a few articles a day or so before this post that stated that the Durango was being discontinued.


http://vehiclesupdate.com/2017-dodge-durango-redesign-release-date-and-price/


Don't know I'd trust that - FCA is delaying LOTS of vhicles:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/06...-product-range/

Me thinks it's circling the drain. Or making itself look good for, what the 10th owner of Chrysler?

 

[Srt20]

I
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: Srt20
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Srt20
A unibody chassis will handle much much better than any frame chassis. That's not even a debate.

The 2016 durango will not receive any major changes. Little stuff like stereo, colors, etc.

The durango will get a update in 2017 IIRC.





I saw a few articles a day or so before this post that stated that the Durango was being discontinued.


http://vehiclesupdate.com/2017-dodge-durango-redesign-release-date-and-price/
Originally Posted By: Srt20
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Srt20
A unibody chassis will handle much much better than any frame chassis. That's not even a debate.

The 2016 durango will not receive any major changes. Little stuff like stereo, colors, etc.

The durango will get a update in 2017 IIRC.





I saw a few articles a day or so before this post that stated that the Durango was being discontinued.


http://vehiclesupdate.com/2017-dodge-durango-redesign-release-date-and-price/


Don't know I'd trust that - FCA is delaying LOTS of vhicles:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/06...-product-range/

Me thinks it's circling the drain. Or making itself look good for, what the 10th owner of Chrysler?


Your link just helps my point. Your link says the Jeep Wagoneer is delayed 2-3 times already. FCA isn't going without a 3 row SUV. if the durango goes away, which has been rumored to start already last year, it will be because the jeep 3 row Wagoneer replaces it.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Me thinks it's circling the drain.

FCA sales are up for the 63rd consecutive month, while cash reserves are down over a billion dollars. Not exactly circling the drain, but what's going on with the cash? R&D.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars...undai/29552495/

I think what's going on here is the en bloc obsolescence of too many vehicles. It takes a LOT of money to design a new vehicle now, since the bar on safety (small overlap) and fuel economy (CAFE) keeps rising.

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Or making itself look good for, what the 10th owner of Chrysler?

Depleting cash reserves is hardly making them look good for resale. Their sales make them look good. Having a bunch of newly designed vehicles is 2-3 years will really make them look good (as long as they don't take the Cerebus Chrysler approach and put out old tech vehicles with new skin).

Trying to R&D too many new vehicles at one time, I think that's the problem.

 

[ac_tc]

By all means get a Durango.
- grand Cherokee is its shorter sister Jeep
- is partly the platform designed by Chrysler for the merc ml
- some ram influence..esp towing
- can stand the v8 hemi as its designed for that
- excellent 8 speed auto
Its the large sales of grand cherokee´s thats hurting Durango sales, one sold Durango means one less produced gc since the line they make both of em is running at full capacity.