Newer engines have tighter tolerance so thin oil is required running too thin in an older engine not speced for it will cause blow by and consumption.
do 5w-30 users ever with to thinner oils?
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Originally Posted By: Garak
Maybe, Shannow.
The Audi's manual did warn about sustained, high speed driving, along with monitoring oil consumption.
If that's the case why bother with the thinner oil? To me the pennies I might be saving on a tank of gas isn't worth it. I also doubt my engine is going to last any longer on the thinner oil, I might even be shortening its life. Once again why bother?
Maybe, Shannow.
If that's the case why bother with the thinner oil? To me the pennies I might be saving on a tank of gas isn't worth it. I also doubt my engine is going to last any longer on the thinner oil, I might even be shortening its life. Once again why bother?
I think it was simply due to winter starting. Remember, when that particular Audi came out, the only 5w-XX grades readily available were 5w-30 and 5w-20, and few if any 0w-XX grades were available. So, considering 15w-40 was the preferred grade according to the manual, when it hit -40, a 5w-20 or a 5w-30 would be a reasonable choice, despite oil consumption.
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Originally Posted By: tratman2000
Newer engines have tighter tolerance so thin oil is required running too thin in an older engine not speced for it will cause blow by and consumption.
You mean tighter clearances and that's not the case.
What newer engines DO have are more rigid bottom ends (like the Modular for example) that prevent things from "moving around" and subsequently can be more safely spec'd for thinner lubricants.
Newer engines have tighter tolerance so thin oil is required running too thin in an older engine not speced for it will cause blow by and consumption.
You mean tighter clearances and that's not the case.
What newer engines DO have are more rigid bottom ends (like the Modular for example) that prevent things from "moving around" and subsequently can be more safely spec'd for thinner lubricants.
Originally Posted By: Garak
I think it was simply due to winter starting. Remember, when that particular Audi came out, the only 5w-XX grades readily available were 5w-30 and 5w-20, and few if any 0w-XX grades were available. So, considering 15w-40 was the preferred grade according to the manual, when it hit -40, a 5w-20 or a 5w-30 would be a reasonable choice, despite oil consumption.
Agreed again. Even then, the question remains: "Even so, agree with you, but then why manufacturers recommend a 20 grade oil (only) in the US while for same vehicle/engine combo they have recommended a 30 grade up to a 40 grade oil in Asia and Australia ? "
Certainly it is not the start up viscosity that dictates such recommendations, but what does then necessitate such manufacturer oil recommendations ?
As such this brings a factual credibility issue when OEMs recommend such drastically different oil grade variations , while we know that main bearings clearances primarily dictate the high-temperature viscosity limits of requirement for a given engine type.
I think it was simply due to winter starting. Remember, when that particular Audi came out, the only 5w-XX grades readily available were 5w-30 and 5w-20, and few if any 0w-XX grades were available. So, considering 15w-40 was the preferred grade according to the manual, when it hit -40, a 5w-20 or a 5w-30 would be a reasonable choice, despite oil consumption.
Agreed again. Even then, the question remains: "Even so, agree with you, but then why manufacturers recommend a 20 grade oil (only) in the US while for same vehicle/engine combo they have recommended a 30 grade up to a 40 grade oil in Asia and Australia ? "
Certainly it is not the start up viscosity that dictates such recommendations, but what does then necessitate such manufacturer oil recommendations ?
As such this brings a factual credibility issue when OEMs recommend such drastically different oil grade variations , while we know that main bearings clearances primarily dictate the high-temperature viscosity limits of requirement for a given engine type.
Fuel economy is certain an issue. It's notable that the old Audi did allow for 5w-20 within certain temperatures. I think when the manual was written, M1 might have had one of the only options out there. I'd ask myself why a 5w-20 and a 5w-30 as allowable versus a 5w-20, the chart did allow for a 20w-20, so it would be odd not to allow for a 5w-20. That engine wasn't vastly different than ones a short time later that began to call for A3/B3 A3/B4 type lubricants only. The issue in that case, I believe, was the ridiculously long OCIs more than anything else. 12,500 km severe service intervals in the early 1990s on a turbocharged engine with conventional might have been optimistic.
I've always maintained that there are other considerations beyond fuel economy. Ease of maintenance is important, along with at least making some effort at prevent a motorist from making a very foolish decision, such as SAE 40 in a Saskatchewan winter or 0w-20 in a Vette on track day. When such an error occurs and there are consequences, far too many people would run to the dealer for warranty.
Shannow's posted a good graph here comparing driving habits in Europe versus elsewhere, and there is a greater disparity than I thought there would have been. I guess there simply isn't only one answer. We also still have to see how vehicles will fare in North America on some of these 0w-20 and 5w-20 offerings on extended OCIs. Before tig1 comments, I know he uses M1 in a 20 grade and has for years, but they have been standing behind their oil for long OCIs from the outset.
Not every other company offers an additional distance/time based warranty beyond what the OEM does. So, only time will tell, I guess, especially with GDI.
I don't think there's one answer or reason we can point to. Fuel economy, dumbing vehicles down, advances in oils and engines, North American driving habits....
I've always maintained that there are other considerations beyond fuel economy. Ease of maintenance is important, along with at least making some effort at prevent a motorist from making a very foolish decision, such as SAE 40 in a Saskatchewan winter or 0w-20 in a Vette on track day. When such an error occurs and there are consequences, far too many people would run to the dealer for warranty.
Shannow's posted a good graph here comparing driving habits in Europe versus elsewhere, and there is a greater disparity than I thought there would have been. I guess there simply isn't only one answer. We also still have to see how vehicles will fare in North America on some of these 0w-20 and 5w-20 offerings on extended OCIs. Before tig1 comments, I know he uses M1 in a 20 grade and has for years, but they have been standing behind their oil for long OCIs from the outset.
Not every other company offers an additional distance/time based warranty beyond what the OEM does. So, only time will tell, I guess, especially with GDI.
I don't think there's one answer or reason we can point to. Fuel economy, dumbing vehicles down, advances in oils and engines, North American driving habits....
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