Suddenly my older vehicles look better than ever.
Auto makers trying to stop home mechanics
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There was a user on here who loved 1992 Honda Civics. He could fix them, they were lightweight with lots of glass and had modern (if not better!) suspension and fuel injection/ driveability.
Nows the time to stock up while their price is rock bottom. Will they be the next 69 Camaro?
Nows the time to stock up while their price is rock bottom. Will they be the next 69 Camaro?
I think this should be fixed from a different perspective.
How about a manufacturer offering some inexpensive/free software that would talk to your ECU thru a USB port or bluetooth, so the average shade-tree 'tuner' could tinker with settings in a safe manner. Maybe incorporate more 'tuning' features into the infotainment screen? Maybe you could choose a general state of tune (comfy, sporty, racecar, eco), or drill down to specific items.
Maybe you could download the latest 'tune' from the manufacturer and flash your ECU, like you can do with new TV's and almost every other consumer electronic product (without spending $100's at the dealer).
Win-win: people get to tinker, and the manufacturer could design the software/firmware so that any tinkering would be in a safe range (not allowing the machine to damage itself or hurt anyone).
Hackers will always hack. Why not give the 99.9% of people who are not hackers the opportunity to tune and adjust to their heart's desire, safely and with the blessing of the manufacturer.
How about a manufacturer offering some inexpensive/free software that would talk to your ECU thru a USB port or bluetooth, so the average shade-tree 'tuner' could tinker with settings in a safe manner. Maybe incorporate more 'tuning' features into the infotainment screen? Maybe you could choose a general state of tune (comfy, sporty, racecar, eco), or drill down to specific items.
Maybe you could download the latest 'tune' from the manufacturer and flash your ECU, like you can do with new TV's and almost every other consumer electronic product (without spending $100's at the dealer).
Win-win: people get to tinker, and the manufacturer could design the software/firmware so that any tinkering would be in a safe range (not allowing the machine to damage itself or hurt anyone).
Hackers will always hack. Why not give the 99.9% of people who are not hackers the opportunity to tune and adjust to their heart's desire, safely and with the blessing of the manufacturer.
Anything can be reverse engineered, it makes it easier if you don't care about 100% duplication because you are looking to improve it anyway.
If the car companies succeed in completely locking down the ECU, instead of hacking the original, hackers will burn their own from the ground up. It's only a series of CANBUS comms, A/D, D/A and Digital I/O's after all. Every single I/O can be traced and graphed.
If the car companies succeed in completely locking down the ECU, instead of hacking the original, hackers will burn their own from the ground up. It's only a series of CANBUS comms, A/D, D/A and Digital I/O's after all. Every single I/O can be traced and graphed.
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
i look forward to the bright future where those evil tuner warehouses are shutdown and incarcerated. they are a blight on the landscape across from the fedex building. also, the driveway should be only used for vehicles that are registered and inspected (city ordinance).
I look forward to future when the EPA looses control of the economy.
+1 Might be in '16.
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
i look forward to the bright future where those evil tuner warehouses are shutdown and incarcerated. they are a blight on the landscape across from the fedex building. also, the driveway should be only used for vehicles that are registered and inspected (city ordinance).
I look forward to future when the EPA looses control of the economy.
+1 Might be in '16.
I've seen somne nice runnin' crate motors set up with aftermarket injection and ignition. In Florida, they don't CARE what your emission setup is.
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Wait tell some government agency tells us to buy a car every 5 years due to environmental concerns.
They force that on car owners in Japan by having impossible to meet body and suspension inspection standards. That's why it's so easy to get used engines from Japan in good shape.
Wait tell some government agency tells us to buy a car every 5 years due to environmental concerns.
They force that on car owners in Japan by having impossible to meet body and suspension inspection standards. That's why it's so easy to get used engines from Japan in good shape.
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Wait tell some government agency tells us to buy a car every 5 years due to environmental concerns.
They force that on car owners in Japan by having impossible to meet body and suspension inspection standards. That's why it's so easy to get used engines from Japan in good shape.
My Caddy will meet just about any standard...and in a pinch, I'll get antique plates for it and tell them to pound sand.
Then again, I don't imagine finding an inspection shop whose ethics are cash- or alcohol-soluble is all that difficult...
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Wait tell some government agency tells us to buy a car every 5 years due to environmental concerns.
They force that on car owners in Japan by having impossible to meet body and suspension inspection standards. That's why it's so easy to get used engines from Japan in good shape.
My Caddy will meet just about any standard...and in a pinch, I'll get antique plates for it and tell them to pound sand.
Then again, I don't imagine finding an inspection shop whose ethics are cash- or alcohol-soluble is all that difficult...
Seems to me to just be a money grab. Dealership repair prices will go through the roof should this pass, there bad now, just hold on if they get their way.
Hearing that also makes me want to hold onto the mid 90's
Honda Accord and VW Golf I already have.
The advent of the internet is helping customers become increasingly savvy, even the least mechanically knowledgeable.... I think consumers are increasingly starting to awaken and push back, we don't hear about it because the mfrs don't want to acknowledge it, but they are and
the over the top complexity is starting to become cost prohibitive in terms of maintenance and affordability.
Honda Accord and VW Golf I already have.
The advent of the internet is helping customers become increasingly savvy, even the least mechanically knowledgeable.... I think consumers are increasingly starting to awaken and push back, we don't hear about it because the mfrs don't want to acknowledge it, but they are and
the over the top complexity is starting to become cost prohibitive in terms of maintenance and affordability.
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NY DOES DO THAT. but speeding tickets are not issued
Originally Posted By: Miller88
The NYS Thruway does trip average speed, I believe, for speedpass users.
I got a comment once (with the little ticket they give) that I was going fast. I didn't real
ize that they have entry time recorded ...
Originally Posted By: Miller88
The NYS Thruway does trip average speed, I believe, for speedpass users.
I got a comment once (with the little ticket they give) that I was going fast. I didn't real
ize that they have entry time recorded ...
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Originally Posted By: ted s
NY DOES DO THAT. but speeding tickets are not issued
Originally Posted By: Miller88
The NYS Thruway does trip average speed, I believe, for speedpass users.
I got a comment once (with the little ticket they give) that I was going fast. I didn't real
ize that they have entry time recorded ...
The PA Turnpike has done that since at least the 1960s.
NY DOES DO THAT. but speeding tickets are not issued
Originally Posted By: Miller88
The NYS Thruway does trip average speed, I believe, for speedpass users.
I got a comment once (with the little ticket they give) that I was going fast. I didn't real
ize that they have entry time recorded ...
The PA Turnpike has done that since at least the 1960s.
Massachusetts voters passed a right to repair law. I think other states need to do the same thing. Maybe more.
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/
So if I buy a Fender guitar and make it big, will Fender claim copyright on my music as I'm just activating something that was "already in there"?
http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/
So if I buy a Fender guitar and make it big, will Fender claim copyright on my music as I'm just activating something that was "already in there"?
But doesn't all of this primarily center around software and electronics in the vehicles that they are wanting to fuss over? I am not so sure that replacing your brakes, doing your own lube services, and the kind of stuff that most home repair is will be affected much. For one, there just isn't enough dealer shop space and personnel to start some sort of every repair has to be done by them thing. Joe's tire, Bill's auto body, Ted's muffler and brake, etc will most likely not be hurt by any of what the OEM's are seeking to do. Nor will owners no longer be able to make the vast majority of repairs they do now. One has to keep in mind, the vast majority of DIY repair people only do minor stuff and lube changes. Very few owners even have an interest in opening up a motor. Many are uneasy about just cleaning a throttle body.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
One has to keep in mind, the vast majority of DIY repair people only do minor stuff and lube changes. Very few owners even have an interest in opening up a motor. Many are uneasy about just cleaning a throttle body.
True. I bought 3M complete fuel system cleaner a while ago, but I just don't know if I will be able to do the throttle body cleaning for my 15 years old 160k miles E430.
One has to keep in mind, the vast majority of DIY repair people only do minor stuff and lube changes. Very few owners even have an interest in opening up a motor. Many are uneasy about just cleaning a throttle body.
True. I bought 3M complete fuel system cleaner a while ago, but I just don't know if I will be able to do the throttle body cleaning for my 15 years old 160k miles E430.
Say your perfectly useable car is 15 years old. All the controllers are on the same CAN buss. One of no consequence, say the radio, fries, locks up the buss and shuts down the car. The radios are available used or repaired, but the software to link it to your VIN is no longer supported by the Mfg, who does choose to sue or charge outrageous license fee to anyone who tries to use it. The car will not run without it connected a "oversight" I am sure.
This is one negative outcome.
There are others
This is one negative outcome.
There are others
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Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
...but I just don't know if I will be able to do the throttle body cleaning for my 15 years old 160k miles E430.
Of course you will. It's easy if you're so inclined.
M112 pictured
...but I just don't know if I will be able to do the throttle body cleaning for my 15 years old 160k miles E430.
Of course you will. It's easy if you're so inclined.
M112 pictured
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I look forward to future when the EPA looses control of the economy.
I am not a fan of government but thank the EPA that you can actually see blue sky once in a while. Its not too hard to figure out that India and China have no effective clean air laws. I know its a reach to say that when we have no clue on how the people of China and India must feel. But if we were there many of us might feel a bit different about the EPA.
Also the proposal that is being discussed has about as much chance of passing as my cup os ice tea has of typing on the keyboard its sitting next to.
I look forward to future when the EPA looses control of the economy.
I am not a fan of government but thank the EPA that you can actually see blue sky once in a while. Its not too hard to figure out that India and China have no effective clean air laws. I know its a reach to say that when we have no clue on how the people of China and India must feel. But if we were there many of us might feel a bit different about the EPA.
Also the proposal that is being discussed has about as much chance of passing as my cup os ice tea has of typing on the keyboard its sitting next to.
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