What ever happened to Saturn's plastic body panels
- Thread starter zach1900
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Partly (my speculation) due to the ever-so-stringent NHTSA crash test requirements, which, when plastic body panel being used on certain areas (such as front fender), does not really helped in contributing to better collision outcomes.
One of the most recent (stringent) one that most smaller vehicles failed up and until 2014 model year is the small frontal overlap test:
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/ratings-info/frontal-crash-tests
http://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/new-crash-test-shakes-up-car-safety-ratings.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvs7A8tMqkk
Q.
One of the most recent (stringent) one that most smaller vehicles failed up and until 2014 model year is the small frontal overlap test:
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/ratings-info/frontal-crash-tests
http://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/new-crash-test-shakes-up-car-safety-ratings.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvs7A8tMqkk
Q.
Originally Posted By: CKN
Whenever I see an old Saturn door dings are non-existent. However, most have faded paint by now.
Just a good reason to wash and wax them regularly. Not to change the subject but I'v seen very few 10-15 year old Buicks with good paint.
Whenever I see an old Saturn door dings are non-existent. However, most have faded paint by now.
Just a good reason to wash and wax them regularly. Not to change the subject but I'v seen very few 10-15 year old Buicks with good paint.
I hope these crash tests represent the real world and do contribute to safer cars.
These tests are run against barriers but when a small car hits a big car it's got to be difficult for the smaller car.
Last summer a Tahoe had a head on with a Smart Car. The Tahoe sustained damage that totaled the vehicle but with no injuries to the passengers. The Smart Car was absolutely destroyed and the driver was killed. It took the fire department quite a bit of time to extract his body from the wreckage.
It appears that driving a bigger vehicle might be a lot safer when involved in collisions with smaller vehicles but that is not represented in these current crash tests.
These tests are run against barriers but when a small car hits a big car it's got to be difficult for the smaller car.
Last summer a Tahoe had a head on with a Smart Car. The Tahoe sustained damage that totaled the vehicle but with no injuries to the passengers. The Smart Car was absolutely destroyed and the driver was killed. It took the fire department quite a bit of time to extract his body from the wreckage.
It appears that driving a bigger vehicle might be a lot safer when involved in collisions with smaller vehicles but that is not represented in these current crash tests.
I have a 2003 Staurn with the plastic panels. They have held up wonderfully. Not too lng ago, I read an article about these panels saying that GM gave up on them because of the large number of complaints received about the large gaps between fenders and ddor and between the doors that were required due to thermal expansion of the plastic. According to this article, folks want small gaps that only metal can offer.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I hope these crash tests represent the real world and do contribute to safer cars.
These tests are run against barriers but when a small car hits a big car it's got to be difficult for the smaller car.
Last summer a Tahoe had a head on with a Smart Car. The Tahoe sustained damage that totaled the vehicle but with no injuries to the passengers. The Smart Car was absolutely destroyed and the driver was killed. It took the fire department quite a bit of time to extract his body from the wreckage.
It appears that driving a bigger vehicle might be a lot safer when involved in collisions with smaller vehicles but that is not represented in these current crash tests.
Know where I can get a Greyhound bus, used. I'm ascared.
I hope these crash tests represent the real world and do contribute to safer cars.
These tests are run against barriers but when a small car hits a big car it's got to be difficult for the smaller car.
Last summer a Tahoe had a head on with a Smart Car. The Tahoe sustained damage that totaled the vehicle but with no injuries to the passengers. The Smart Car was absolutely destroyed and the driver was killed. It took the fire department quite a bit of time to extract his body from the wreckage.
It appears that driving a bigger vehicle might be a lot safer when involved in collisions with smaller vehicles but that is not represented in these current crash tests.
Know where I can get a Greyhound bus, used. I'm ascared.
When I jack one corner of a saturn s-series, its space frame keeps it stiff whether or not a door is open. In fact, with the rear on jack stands, I started jacking a front corner and the whole car lifted without complaint.
I think it's a noise/ harshness thing, the plastic doesn't really help with road drone or the car is under insulated compared to its competition. It has other Trabant-like qualities, good and bad.
I think it's a noise/ harshness thing, the plastic doesn't really help with road drone or the car is under insulated compared to its competition. It has other Trabant-like qualities, good and bad.
I believe current BMW front quarter panels are thermoplastic.
The e92 (Prev gen coupe) had them starting in '07-'08
The e92 (Prev gen coupe) had them starting in '07-'08
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One of the original Saturn engineers posted this over at Saturnfans:
Quote:
Towards the end of the S-series production we were selling virtually a 10 year old basic design against the very latest that Toyota etc. could produce. The result proved to be pretty reliable but chronic noise, vibration, & harshness (NVH) issues were largely baked in for the duration of the design. In hindsight maybe the 2 Billion spent on Spring Hill could have been largely saved by refurbishing one of GM's many mothballed assembly plants. That may have left more money for fresh product.
Saturn engineer Z-Car thread
His post starts at #4.
I drive a Z-Car...I mean S-Car.
I still see alot of Saturns like mine on the road and in the junk yard. More cheap parts for me.
I have battled noise, vibration, and harness through ownership. One thing I noticed going from a 93 Sentra to a 99 SL2. The Sentra seemed much more refined.
I have a lot of rattles at 251,000 miles. Runs great. Handles great. Easy to repair. Yes! Refined not so much. It is so "80's" or perhaps "70's" is some ways. One reason I like it.
Quote:
Towards the end of the S-series production we were selling virtually a 10 year old basic design against the very latest that Toyota etc. could produce. The result proved to be pretty reliable but chronic noise, vibration, & harshness (NVH) issues were largely baked in for the duration of the design. In hindsight maybe the 2 Billion spent on Spring Hill could have been largely saved by refurbishing one of GM's many mothballed assembly plants. That may have left more money for fresh product.
Saturn engineer Z-Car thread
His post starts at #4.
I drive a Z-Car...I mean S-Car.
I have battled noise, vibration, and harness through ownership. One thing I noticed going from a 93 Sentra to a 99 SL2. The Sentra seemed much more refined.
I have a lot of rattles at 251,000 miles. Runs great. Handles great. Easy to repair. Yes! Refined not so much. It is so "80's" or perhaps "70's" is some ways. One reason I like it.
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I hope these crash tests represent the real world and do contribute to safer cars.
These tests are run against barriers but when a small car hits a big car it's got to be difficult for the smaller car.
Last summer a Tahoe had a head on with a Smart Car. The Tahoe sustained damage that totaled the vehicle but with no injuries to the passengers. The Smart Car was absolutely destroyed and the driver was killed. It took the fire department quite a bit of time to extract his body from the wreckage.
It appears that driving a bigger vehicle might be a lot safer when involved in collisions with smaller vehicles but that is not represented in these current crash tests.
Know where I can get a Greyhound bus, used. I'm ascared.
I heard, from a former co-driver, that anyone can get behind the wheel of a semi-truck. Its just when you adda trailer, as he said, do you need the Class A.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I hope these crash tests represent the real world and do contribute to safer cars.
These tests are run against barriers but when a small car hits a big car it's got to be difficult for the smaller car.
Last summer a Tahoe had a head on with a Smart Car. The Tahoe sustained damage that totaled the vehicle but with no injuries to the passengers. The Smart Car was absolutely destroyed and the driver was killed. It took the fire department quite a bit of time to extract his body from the wreckage.
It appears that driving a bigger vehicle might be a lot safer when involved in collisions with smaller vehicles but that is not represented in these current crash tests.
Know where I can get a Greyhound bus, used. I'm ascared.
I heard, from a former co-driver, that anyone can get behind the wheel of a semi-truck. Its just when you adda trailer, as he said, do you need the Class A.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I hope these crash tests represent the real world and do contribute to safer cars.
These tests are run against barriers but when a small car hits a big car it's got to be difficult for the smaller car.
Last summer a Tahoe had a head on with a Smart Car. The Tahoe sustained damage that totaled the vehicle but with no injuries to the passengers. The Smart Car was absolutely destroyed and the driver was killed. It took the fire department quite a bit of time to extract his body from the wreckage.
It appears that driving a bigger vehicle might be a lot safer when involved in collisions with smaller vehicles but that is not represented in these current crash tests.
There is a way to look at this: you want to reward designers for improvement within the constrain of the design. You want small cars that are safer than yesterday's small cars, rather than obsoleting small cars completely and having everyone going into large unsafe cars.
As a government policy maker, you want the entire country to be safer together than just an arm race between big vs small cars. Categorizing the competition within its class is a good way to do that.
I hope these crash tests represent the real world and do contribute to safer cars.
These tests are run against barriers but when a small car hits a big car it's got to be difficult for the smaller car.
Last summer a Tahoe had a head on with a Smart Car. The Tahoe sustained damage that totaled the vehicle but with no injuries to the passengers. The Smart Car was absolutely destroyed and the driver was killed. It took the fire department quite a bit of time to extract his body from the wreckage.
It appears that driving a bigger vehicle might be a lot safer when involved in collisions with smaller vehicles but that is not represented in these current crash tests.
There is a way to look at this: you want to reward designers for improvement within the constrain of the design. You want small cars that are safer than yesterday's small cars, rather than obsoleting small cars completely and having everyone going into large unsafe cars.
As a government policy maker, you want the entire country to be safer together than just an arm race between big vs small cars. Categorizing the competition within its class is a good way to do that.
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