Interesting convo with local transmission shop

[cb_13]

Originally Posted By: doublebase
Although I do think simple drain and fills are fine - and it's all I ever did for my Honda Accord, I disagree that a flush machine won't exchange all the fluid.

I've used flush machines before and it appeared to me that all the fluid looked like it got flushed out (the machine I had dispersed the old fluid into another container where you could clearly see the color of the old fluid change to new as it reached 8-10 quarts or so.

The fluid is constantly being mixed during an exchange. There's not a magical barrier that is formed by the new fluid to push the old out. The BG machine will put 16 quarts through the system. I think it works well but it's definitely not going to get ALL the old fluid out A transaxle with a 6 quart total capacity is going to end up with a much better old/new fluid ratio than a torqueshift with a total capacity of 17.5 qts.

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: cb_13
A dealership can sell whatever they want. They are a franchise. That does not mean the manufacturer will stand behind the warranty when unauthorized additives or unapproved fluids are used. If you trust BG's warranty to cover you or your dealer to lie to the manufacturer on your behalf then it's a non issue.


BG fluids are not "unapproved" and their warranty is no gimmick. No lies required. Look at their website. Their is more than enough information and it is all transparent. No gimmicks and many people have benefited from not only their superior lubricants but their limited lifetime warranty. Read the reviews of others. I'm not sure what happened in your situation, but there must be more to the story that isn't being shared. BG definetely has a nationwide reputation as an outstanding company. You don't get that through shady business practices.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: jk_636


BG fluids are not "unapproved" and their warranty is no gimmick. No lies required. Look at their website. Their is more than enough information and it is all transparent. No gimmicks and many people have benefited from not only their superior lubricants but their limited lifetime warranty. Read the reviews of others. I'm not sure what happened in your situation, but there must be more to the story that isn't being shared. BG definetely has a nationwide reputation as an outstanding company. You don't get that through shady business practices.



I don't think BG products are bad, however when a customer gets their vehicle serviced at the
$tealership they expect to have OEM and factory fluids used (except oil brand)
This is ESPECIALLY important when it comes to certain brands which require specific fluids for their transaxles and power steering systems.

Unless the $tealership clearly informs the customer they will NOT be receiving OEM fluids they are
being DECEPTIVE and that is a form of fraud.

 

[ET16]

All the BG products I have seen at shops have been very overpriced.

 

[cb_13]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: cb_13
A dealership can sell whatever they want. They are a franchise. That does not mean the manufacturer will stand behind the warranty when unauthorized additives or unapproved fluids are used. If you trust BG's warranty to cover you or your dealer to lie to the manufacturer on your behalf then it's a non issue.


BG fluids are not "unapproved" and their warranty is no gimmick. No lies required. Look at their website. Their is more than enough information and it is all transparent. No gimmicks and many people have benefited from not only their superior lubricants but their limited lifetime warranty. Read the reviews of others. I'm not sure what happened in your situation, but there must be more to the story that isn't being shared. BG definetely has a nationwide reputation as an outstanding company. You don't get that through shady business practices.

If an owners manual says no additives and you use additives that is not approved. If a manufacturer says use a fluid certified to meet XYZ specifications and you use a fluid that the fluid maker recommends but is not certified for XYZ that is also not approved.
I'm not even going to respond to your opinions of how outstanding the company is and superior the products are. As that is all it is, your opinion. I have no dog in this fight but it sure sounds like you do.

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: cb_13
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: cb_13
A dealership can sell whatever they want. They are a franchise. That does not mean the manufacturer will stand behind the warranty when unauthorized additives or unapproved fluids are used. If you trust BG's warranty to cover you or your dealer to lie to the manufacturer on your behalf then it's a non issue.


BG fluids are not "unapproved" and their warranty is no gimmick. No lies required. Look at their website. Their is more than enough information and it is all transparent. No gimmicks and many people have benefited from not only their superior lubricants but their limited lifetime warranty. Read the reviews of others. I'm not sure what happened in your situation, but there must be more to the story that isn't being shared. BG definetely has a nationwide reputation as an outstanding company. You don't get that through shady business practices.

If an owners manual says no additives and you use additives that is not approved. If a manufacturer says use a fluid certified to meet XYZ specifications and you use a fluid that the fluid maker recommends but is not certified for XYZ that is also not approved.
I'm not even going to respond to your opinions of how outstanding the company is and superior the products are. As that is all it is, your opinion. I have no dog in this fight but it sure sounds like you do.


Correct, if it doesn't carry a formal manufacturer's approval and license, it is "unapproved".


Of course the BG fluid may very well work just fine, but I seriously doubt that it carries any formal approval/license and therefore a manufacturer is not obligated to stand behind their product.

 

[jk_636]

All of the research I have done shows that BG fluids meet or exceed all factory specs. CB13 I don't know why you keep bringing additives into this discussion as it is strictly referring to oils. Antiqueshell if you want the dealership to use OEM fluids (which are typically bottom of the barrel, made by the lowest bidder type fluids) then go ahead. Many would much prefer better oils that offer more protection than these. It comes as a real surprise to me that so many people in this thread are so darn bent on OEM fluids. But then again, maybe that is what you prefer when using Walmart gas and other cheap / less efficient products. Me personally, I care about my vehicle more than that, but to each his own!

 

[cb_13]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
All of the research I have done shows that BG fluids meet or exceed all factory specs. CB13 I don't know why you keep bringing additives into this discussion as it is strictly referring to oils. Antiqueshell if you want the dealership to use OEM fluids (which are typically bottom of the barrel, made by the lowest bidder type fluids) then go ahead. Many would much prefer better oils that offer more protection than these. It comes as a real surprise to me that so many people in this thread are so darn bent on OEM fluids. But then again, maybe that is what you prefer when using Walmart gas and other cheap / less efficient products. Me personally, I care about my vehicle more than that, but to each his own!

Do you even know what is involved in a BG transmission service? You run their cleaning additive in the transmission for a specified amount of time. Then exchange the fluid using their machine and add the BG automatic transmission fluid conditioner. That is why I keep mentioning additives. They are part of the recommended service for their warranty requirements.

 

[kschachn]

Well great, but how do I know that? I don't do "research", I look on the label and see if it meets the specifications and requirements of the manufacturer. What kind of research did you do?

And I'm not bent on OEM fluids, in fact the only one I use is Honda PSF. So which OEM fluids are "typically bottom of the barrel, made by the lowest bidder type fluids"? Did you determine that during your research? Are Toyota OEM fluids bottom of the barrel? What about GM fluids? BMW? Honda? If you post a list then we can all avoid them.

Originally Posted By: jk_636
All of the research I have done shows that BG fluids meet or exceed all factory specs. CB13 I don't know why you keep bringing additives into this discussion as it is strictly referring to oils. Antiqueshell if you want the dealership to use OEM fluids (which are typically bottom of the barrel, made by the lowest bidder type fluids) then go ahead. Many would much prefer better oils that offer more protection than these. It comes as a real surprise to me that so many people in this thread are so darn bent on OEM fluids. But then again, maybe that is what you prefer when using Walmart gas and other cheap / less efficient products. Me personally, I care about my vehicle more than that, but to each his own!

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Well great, but how do I know that? I don't do "research", I look on the label and see if it meets the specifications and requirements of the manufacturer. What kind of research did you do?

And I'm not bent on OEM fluids, in fact the only one I use is Honda PSF. So which OEM fluids are "typically bottom of the barrel, made by the lowest bidder type fluids"? Did you determine that during your research? Are Toyota OEM fluids bottom of the barrel? What about GM fluids? BMW? Honda? If you post a list then we can all avoid them.

Originally Posted By: jk_636
All of the research I have done shows that BG fluids meet or exceed all factory specs. CB13 I don't know why you keep bringing additives into this discussion as it is strictly referring to oils. Antiqueshell if you want the dealership to use OEM fluids (which are typically bottom of the barrel, made by the lowest bidder type fluids) then go ahead. Many would much prefer better oils that offer more protection than these. It comes as a real surprise to me that so many people in this thread are so darn bent on OEM fluids. But then again, maybe that is what you prefer when using Walmart gas and other cheap / less efficient products. Me personally, I care about my vehicle more than that, but to each his own!


I read up on every product I use. Whether it be a fluid, engine component or miscellaneous part, I try and get as much background information before I use it. I prefer to be an informed consumer. Most consumers don't, and I can't fault them for that. That is there choice and they most likely just don't care. I suppose you fall into this category as well. If you want to use OEM fluids, be my guest. I will continue to use products that offer a higher level of protection and/or better quality. The only OEM fluid I personally use is Mopar HOAT, only because (based on research) I don't think there is anything better. But there darn sure is some Purple Ice made by RP as an additive to make
It better.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
I read up on every product I use. Whether it be a fluid, engine component or miscellaneous part, I try and get as much background information before I use it. I prefer to be an informed consumer. Most consumers don't, and I can't fault them for that. That is there choice and they most likely just don't care. I suppose you fall into this category as well. If you want to use OEM fluids, be my guest. I will continue to use products that offer a higher level of protection and/or better quality. The only OEM fluid I personally use is Mopar HOAT, only because (based on research) I don't think there is anything better. But there darn sure is some Purple Ice made by RP as an additive to make
It better.


Oh no, like I mentioned the only OEM fluid I use is Honda PSF.

So you read up on BG fluids? Do they publish product data sheets that you use to compare them against competitors? I just wondered what technical data you use in your research. Without technical specifications how would you make an informed decision?

And as to the other part where you said earlier:
Quote:
OEM fluids (which are typically bottom of the barrel, made by the lowest bidder type fluids)
and
Quote:
Many would much prefer better oils that offer more protection than these. It comes as a real surprise to me that so many people in this thread are so darn bent on OEM fluids. But then again, maybe that is what you prefer when using Walmart gas and other cheap / less efficient products. Me personally, I care about my vehicle more than that, but to each his own!

I was wondering what basis you used to make that statement, surely you had a reason to do so? You wouldn't have made that claim without a reason, right? How do you know which ones are bottom of the barrel and which ones are superior (such as the coolant you mention)?

 

[jk_636]

This has been an outstanding conversation. If your career at BITOG doesn't work out you should run for congress. You appear to have mastered the quintessential art of the irrelevantly important filibuster.

 

[cb_13]

When you run out of facts just resort to personal attacks. That's always a great debate tactic!

 

[jk_636]

My good sir I haven't run out of facts, rather out of desire to argue with you fine participants. We really need an emoji for sarcasm....

 

[kschachn]

Well I was asking you about facts. What facts do you use to show that BG fluids are high quality and the majority of OEM fluids "are typically bottom of the barrel"?

Originally Posted By: jk_636
My good sir I haven't run out of facts, rather out of desire to argue with you fine participants. We really need an emoji for sarcasm....

 

[cb_13]

Good luck finding any technical information about any of BG's products. It's sealed away along with the facts about the Roswell incident and the Kennedy assassination. Anyone who knows isn't talking and this guy doesn't know or he would have realized that there are two different additives used in the transmission service. That does at least tell me he's not a sales rep.

 

[kschachn]

I had checked BG's website for PDS but I didn't see any. That didn't mean there weren't any, I just couldn't find them.

Without technical data how do you compare? jk says that he is an "informed consumer", but without information how can you be informed? The only answer is that you believe the product is superior based on the reputation of the manufacturer. This is what I do with M1 ATF where ExxonMobil says the product is "suitable" for my application. But that's not really an informed consumer, I do that because I trust ExxonMobil.

The other half of jk's assertion that "OEM fluids (which are typically bottom of the barrel, made by the lowest bidder type fluids)" cannot be explained by this however. I don't know any major automaker that has such a poor reputation that their branded fluids would be suspect in quality. This statement must be considered based only on suppositions and myths, especially with no evidence to the contrary.

 

[paltex]

For orig Op, The shop fellow you were talking to,could be right about your car. If equiped with transmission low temp cut-off, trans fluid will not pump to and through the trans cooler line, if he is talking about removing cooler line at radiator. Most trans shops use an exchanger to heat up the fluid though. Or the line can be removed upstream of the thermostatic cut-off, like near transmission.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: paltex
For orig Op, The shop fellow you were talking to,could be right about your car. If equiped with transmission low temp cut-off, trans fluid will not pump to and through the trans cooler line, if he is talking about removing cooler line at radiator. Most trans shops use an exchanger to heat up the fluid though. Or the line can be removed upstream of the thermostatic cut-off, like near transmission.


No, he said ATF will flow just fine through the cooler lines but due to the transmission design, you will only have access to about 40% of the fluid. So, if you run 15 quarts through the cooler lines, when it is all said and done, he said you have still only replaced 40-50% of the capacity due to the design trapping the rest.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: ET16
All the BG products I have seen at shops have been very overpriced.


In the case of Toyota WS cars I think BG is actually cheaper.

I brought my Camry to a dealership and asked for a transmission fluid exchange, expecting they were going to give me house fluid. Knowing the cost per quart of WS I wondered why the quoted price was so low, because it was less than the cost of the required number of quarts of WS. I dismissed the thought and didn't ask any questioned and learned after the fact that they used BG synthetic.

I'm not as picky as some of you guys are, so I just ran with the assumption that the huge dealership I was at wasn't likely to run fluid through the transmission that wasn't going to work. I also rationalized that maybe they chose something different because maybe the WS wasn't holding up to the heat we get here.

Either way the car seems happy, so I'm happy.