Clash of the titans - cordless impacts and breaker

[JHZR2]

Ive posted before about lug bolts that tend to seize on my 91 318i.

I put off putting on my snow tires, but given the current upcoming snow storm and fact that the winter is still young for the big snows that usually come later in Feb and in March.

Plus I wanted to test my Milwaukee 18V impact vs my older IR and a breaker bar...

Keep in mind that last time I sprayed the wheel interface at the lug bolt cones with zinc paint. IMO that helped a lot.

I had my wife shoot video. Its a DSLR, so while it can be amazingly clear, it can also have focus issues. I was confident Id have some strain on the first round, so we shot it and...



Nothing interesting...

The breaker bar, IR 360, big Milwaukee fuel 1/2" gun and the little 3/8" gun (18V) all took them off.

Then we got to the fourth wheel. Very salty. Tried a breaker bar on it and no dice... So we re-shot.

Breaker at first just a cursory go, then the W360, then the big Milwaukee (low and high settings)... And...



None could do it.

Now, Ive talked before about my guns not taking these when the bolts were badly corroded. Last year I stood on the very end of the pipe on the breaker bar, and with 250-ish lbs of force it took a while to break the corrosion. So I have to figure 500-750-ish ft-lb.

This year was a good deal easier. I didnt need to stand with both feet in the air, and only pulled the cheater pipe maybe 6-12" past the end of the breaker. SO Im guessing 400 ft-lb.

Thing is, at 400 ft-lb, I get why my old 360 IR wouldnt do it... Its only rated at 360ft-lb, the battery is many years old, etc. But a brand new 18V fuel Milwaukee, with brand new fully charged battery??

In this review it was rated at 900 ft-lb, though on a bigger fastener...



So what gives?

 

[Chris142]

I still feel that air is still the best. Wish you were closer. I'd prove it.

 

[oldhp]

How tight are you tightening them to start with?

 

[hypervish]

You made your wife stand out in this bone chilling cold and record this? Props to her, and you!

 

[brslds]

Where did you get that breaker bar from? Had an experience earlier today that made me wish I had a tool exactly like the one you used in your videos.

 

[Brons2]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
I still feel that air is still the best. Wish you were closer. I'd prove it.


+1

 

[howie2092]

why not use anti-seize on the threads? Seems like the perfect application.

 

[Vikas]

Originally Posted By: hypervish
You made your wife stand out in this bone chilling cold and record this? Props to her, and you!

I was shivering just watching the video! Why did you not film this inside your garage?

 

[chrome]

One possible reason that comes to mind is that the lithium batteries are severely affected by the cold.

Would be interesting to see how the cordless impacts will fare when brought out from a warm environment and immediately used to tackle the seized bolts.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: chrome
One possible reason that comes to mind is that the lithium batteries are severely affected by the cold.

Would be interesting to see how the cordless impacts will fare when brought out from a warm environment and immediately used to tackle the seized bolts.


The guns were taken from my home where they were thermally eauilibrated at 65F. Batteries like it best to be a bit warmer, like 30C, but they were not freezing. They hadn't been out in the cold for more tan five minutes, in a closed bag.

Originally Posted By: howie2092
why not use anti-seize on the threads? Seems like the perfect application.


I have in the past put anti seize on the threads and even the conical seat. Nothing worked. The zinc spray worked great on three of four wheels.

Originally Posted By: brslds
Where did you get that breaker bar from? Had an experience earlier today that made me wish I had a tool exactly like the one you used in your videos.


I was given that one as a gift years ago. No idea where it was from. I haven't pulled it from the pipe in a while so I don't recall the markings. It has a crosshatch handle like SK but I don't remember if it is. I have another one with a slightly shorter handle that as a craftsman, and I know a number of people have said good things about the long one that must be at least 24 inches from Harbor freight. If I ever break one I saw a really great really heavy one on the snap on truck that I'd probably buy. I know I've seen the SK ones on Amazon.

Originally Posted By: hypervish
You made your wife stand out in this bone chilling cold and record this? Props to her, and you!

Well I made a last-minute decision to replace my all seasons with snow tires due to a pending storm. So I did to change really quickly in the street, no big deal. My wife is really wonderful she's a great sport willing to go for about anything I'm really lucky guy.

Originally Posted By: oldhp
How tight are you tightening them to start with?


82 ft-lb

Originally Posted By: Chris142
I still feel that air is still the best. Wish you were closer. I'd prove it.


I'm sure you're right that's why the other gift that my wife got me for Christmas was an aircat 1150!

 

[Chris142]

Put the air cat on em then

 

[JHZR2]

Aah but there lies the convenience of the cordless. I can decide on the spur of the meat to change my tires, on the street no less, and do the job in 15 min in the spot exactly where I parked my car when I got back from my last errand. Can't do that with an aircat, and I doubt my 10gal air flask would do many lugs.

My main take-away here is thay with u seized, properly torqued lug nuts, even the latest 3/8" impacts can do the job when lug specs are less than 100 ft-lb. When corroded, even the current industry best machines can't do it, and that's units rated to 900+ ft-lb, which ~400 ft-lb on a breaker can defeat.

 

[Rand]

seems kinda odd, I'd expect it to twist the lug bolt off at 900ft/lb

Its kinda like the difference between a jump box and jumper cables.

one is convenient(and safer),but only one always works.

 

[chrome]

JHZR2, have you tried replacing the old lug bolts with new OEM ones which are shiny nickle/chrome plated? Wondering if the micro pitting from years of corrosion on the old bolts is actually making the issue worse than it should.

 

[JHZR2]

Well perhaps I needed to keep hammering at full power for a longer time. But judging from the video I provided above where someone tested and verified the ratings, it seems that I gunned it long enough.

One thing I've read is that the torque rating is on a certain size fastener. If a 17mm socket is smaller, the max torque will differ accordingly.

Also, corrosion might require a different torque profile?

 

[stockrex]

get one of these,
I have the electric version

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/cordless/2664-20

525 lb-ft torque ;-)

 

[stockrex]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Well perhaps I needed to keep hammering at full power for a longer time. But judging from the video I provided above where someone tested and verified the ratings, it seems that I gunned it long enough.

One thing I've read is that the torque rating is on a certain size fastener. If a 17mm socket is smaller, the max torque will differ accordingly.

Also, corrosion might require a different torque profile?


just spray penetrating oils and leave it overnight and go full power with a 6 point impact socket

I had a stuck bolt on my 88 rx7, it was beanding a breaker bar with a pipe extension, 20 seconds on full power broke it loose.

 

[tc1446]

Originally Posted By: brslds
Where did you get that breaker bar from? Had an experience earlier today that made me wish I had a tool exactly like the one you used in your videos.


Go to hardware store and get a piece of iron pipe to slip over a good socket wrench. Two to three feet is more than adequate.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: stockrex
get one of these,
I have the electric version

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/cordless/2664-20

525 lb-ft torque ;-)


Um, I have the newer, better version of that, rated at much higher torque.

Delivers up to 700 ft-lbs of maximum fastening torque, up to 1,100 ft-lbs of nut-busting torque

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/cordless/2763-22

 

[Traction]

Originally Posted By: tc1446
Originally Posted By: brslds
Where did you get that breaker bar from? Had an experience earlier today that made me wish I had a tool exactly like the one you used in your videos.


Go to hardware store and get a piece of iron pipe to slip over a good socket wrench. Two to three feet is more than adequate.

I use a "gorilla wrench" breaker bar. Extends to 20 inches and is angled. If that won't do it I just pop the handle off the aluminum jack and I have a 3+ foot cheater.