Subaru-Any good?

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted By: Hollow
And interference designs are common, and not a concern if the vehicle is properly maintained.


Timing belts with interference engine only common among a few Japanese car brands. For example, you don't even see timing belts on newer (last 10 years or so) 4 cylinder Toyotas who now use more reliable timing chains.

Try working on a 2000 Forester, I have! The 2000 Camery, 1995 Escort, V6 Alero, and Dodge Truck and WAY easier to work on and the parts are often way less expensive too. I can change spark plugs on the other 4 cars in less time than it would take me to change the 4 plugs on the Subaru. The timing belt is also WAY harder to change on the Subaru. the only thing that the Subaru has that's better is the spin on external transmission filter, but that might be JATCO's idea.

 

[CourierDriver]

Subarus and all those little cars,,just to small for the person thats needs room for kids and stuff, but great starter cars, still cant see how folks get 2 car seats in those and don't lose their mind with kids stuff that you have to carry. O well, we had a 85 glc once, yep it was small, but we drove it a long time, but no kids, just dogs..................

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: Hollow
And interference designs are common, and not a concern if the vehicle is properly maintained.


Timing belts with interference engine only common among a few Japanese car brands. For example, you don't even see timing belts on newer (last 10 years or so) 4 cylinder Toyotas who now use more reliable timing chains.

Try working on a 2000 Forester, I have! The 2000 Camery, 1995 Escort, V6 Alero, and Dodge Truck and WAY easier to work on and the parts are often way less expensive too. I can change spark plugs on the other 4 cars in less time than it would take me to change the 4 plugs on the Subaru. The timing belt is also WAY harder to change on the Subaru. the only thing that the Subaru has that's better is the spin on external transmission filter, but that might be JATCO's idea.


Wow, apparently this is a bash Subaru thread with posts that have nothing to do with the OP's post. Why bring up timing belts which are not on newer Subies? Care to add anything that has any relevance to new Subies?

 

[Hollow]

Originally Posted By: zzyzzx

Try working on a 2000 Forester, I have! The 2000 Camery, 1995 Escort, V6 Alero, and Dodge Truck and WAY easier to work on and the parts are often way less expensive too. I can change spark plugs on the other 4 cars in less time than it would take me to change the 4 plugs on the Subaru. The timing belt is also WAY harder to change on the Subaru. the only thing that the Subaru has that's better is the spin on external transmission filter, but that might be JATCO's idea.


I have an 03 Outback, same SOHC 2.5 engine. Easiest plugs I've ever done. Plugs and wires in about 30-45 minutes.
Did let a mech change my TB, outside of my experience level and my wife and I share the vehicle, can't have it down for long for repairs that I'm being slow/cautious on. Besides, the OP is asking about newer Subaru vehicles, which are now timing chain engines.

Ever tried the plugs on a Ford 4.6? Great engine, horrible to service.

As far as parts, I still don't agree. I spend no more or less on the Subaru than I did on the Ford, or the Toyota, or I expect the upcoming (old) Oldsmobile hand-me-down.

 

[Hollow]

Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Subarus and all those little cars,,just to small for the person thats needs room for kids and stuff, but great starter cars, still cant see how folks get 2 car seats in those and don't lose their mind with kids stuff that you have to carry. O well, we had a 85 glc once, yep it was small, but we drove it a long time, but no kids, just dogs..................


If you can't fit 2 car seats and kid stuff in a station wagon (Outback) or small SUV (Forester) you either are horrible at packing or carry way too much junk.

You can get 3 car seats in them if you need, but it isn't easy. But if you have 3 kids in car seats, a station wagon/small SUV is unlikely to be the proper vehicle any more.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: Hollow
And interference designs are common, and not a concern if the vehicle is properly maintained.


Timing belts with interference engine only common among a few Japanese car brands. For example, you don't even see timing belts on newer (last 10 years or so) 4 cylinder Toyotas who now use more reliable timing chains.

Try working on a 2000 Forester, I have! The 2000 Camery, 1995 Escort, V6 Alero, and Dodge Truck and WAY easier to work on and the parts are often way less expensive too. I can change spark plugs on the other 4 cars in less time than it would take me to change the 4 plugs on the Subaru. The timing belt is also WAY harder to change on the Subaru. the only thing that the Subaru has that's better is the spin on external transmission filter, but that might be JATCO's idea.


Wow i didn't know VW was Japanese. LOL They use belts on some new interference engines.
How about a 2014 Honda 3.5? Timing belt interference engine.
Quote:
Try working on a 2000 Forester, I have!

Me too. They are as easy as it gets. Timing belt in about 3 hours including water pump and oil pump seal. Plugs about 1.5 hr for all 4, a Camry V6 pays 2.6 hours for plugs. So much for that.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: Hollow
And interference designs are common, and not a concern if the vehicle is properly maintained.


Timing belts with interference engine only common among a few Japanese car brands. For example, you don't even see timing belts on newer (last 10 years or so) 4 cylinder Toyotas who now use more reliable timing chains.

Try working on a 2000 Forester, I have! The 2000 Camery, 1995 Escort, V6 Alero, and Dodge Truck and WAY easier to work on and the parts are often way less expensive too. I can change spark plugs on the other 4 cars in less time than it would take me to change the 4 plugs on the Subaru. The timing belt is also WAY harder to change on the Subaru. the only thing that the Subaru has that's better is the spin on external transmission filter, but that might be JATCO's idea.


Wow i didn't know VW was Japanese. LOL They use belts on some new interference engines.
How about a 2014 Honda 3.5? Timing belt interference engine.
Quote:
Try working on a 2000 Forester, I have!

Me too. They are as easy as it gets. Timing belt in about 3 hours including water pump and oil pump seal. Plugs about 1.5 hr for all 4, a Camry V6 pays 2.6 hours for plugs. So much for that.



I had the timing belt only done at 100k and was only charged $300. I think 2.5 hrs labor + part. The mechanic (Subie specialist) called me two hours latter after drop off stating it was done including an oil change.

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Subarus and all those little cars,,just to small for the person thats needs room for kids and stuff, but great starter cars, still cant see how folks get 2 car seats in those and don't lose their mind with kids stuff that you have to carry. O well, we had a 85 glc once, yep it was small, but we drove it a long time, but no kids, just dogs..................


Some of the new Subarus are quite large.

 

[rjundi]

I will add I personally don't think Subaru is a reliable nor unreliable car. Subaru(05 Legacy turbo) was definitely more things go wrong 100k-150k. (bushings fail, caliper, valve seal, throw out bearing, wheel bearings, alt, starter).

My 07 MDX has 121k and I started ownership at 80k. It was an electrical nightmare at first(cheap purchase/$14k) which was solved with new battery($100). An AC relay failed(common Honda issue) and I fixed for $8. Otherwise a tensioner for belt failed $100. 100k maintenace far more expensive though with v6 Honda ($900 timing belt/water pump/tensioner with TSX loaner) and I skipped valve adjustment $300. At least plugs were only $225 at dealer(1hr labor).

I will state Acura fluids changes are cheap except the actual fluids(Acura specifc). My Subie mechanic charges $15-$20/item labor if I provide fluid for transmission and rear diff during an oil change.

 

[wsar10]

Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: Hollow
And interference designs are common, and not a concern if the vehicle is properly maintained.


Timing belts with interference engine only common among a few Japanese car brands. For example, you don't even see timing belts on newer (last 10 years or so) 4 cylinder Toyotas who now use more reliable timing chains.

Try working on a 2000 Forester, I have! The 2000 Camery, 1995 Escort, V6 Alero, and Dodge Truck and WAY easier to work on and the parts are often way less expensive too. I can change spark plugs on the other 4 cars in less time than it would take me to change the 4 plugs on the Subaru. The timing belt is also WAY harder to change on the Subaru. the only thing that the Subaru has that's better is the spin on external transmission filter, but that might be JATCO's idea.


Sounds like you have a [censored] of a learning curve on your hands ! more like a 90 degree angle.....lol !!

those timing chains require the same maintenance as a belt, you should do almost any timing chain or belt between 100-150K.
The belts on most subaru's of that era are a couple of hour job and usually under $500, compare that to 4.0 cologne V6 Ford.....(a chain BTW)
We just had a Subaru done within the past couple of years, and I'm currently looking into the TC and tensioner replacement for our 06 explorer, and trust me I would rather do it on the Suby than the 4.0 ford.....

 

[Subdued]

I have a 03 Forester in my driveway that spent its first 137,000 miles being neglected. Inconsistent oil changes, coolant never replaced, diff oil never replaced, pretty much no maintenance outside the sporadic oil changes, original plugs, etc

It's been in 3 different accidents, and only received enough repair to get back on the road.

The car still runs like new, all it needs is the timing belt and head gaskets at this point.

The car is seriously a freaking tank.

 

[fdcg27]

We've had three Roos and have two at present.
They are a bit of a cult car and are an acquired taste, but they have proven to be durable and reliable.
The only real knock I have on them is fuel consumption, although that appears to be much better in current models.
The engines also seem more prone to oil leaks than any Honda we've owned, but that's either fixable or ignorable.
On a nasty winter day, any Honda on decent tires will get you home, but an AWD Subie on any tire will do so with no effort at all on your part.
You cannot understand how good Subaru's AWD system is until you drive one in really bad conditions. Subaru could teach every other maker how an AWD system should work. The Subaru setup is utterly seamless. You don't even feel it other than noticing how easy the car is to drive while everyone else is slipping and sliding around and all of the 4X4 trucks are in the ditches.
WRT the flat six, they are seriously strong as 3.6 liter NA engines go. Drive one and see what you think.
They're also pretty thirsty.

 

[Joe1]

Me and everybody I know who owns a Subaru are very satisfied.

The build quality and reliability of my '05 Forester is commensurate with what I expected from a Japanese vehicle when I purchased it. I change the oil and air filter myself and have it serviced every 30 to 40k miles. I'm at 157k miles and still going strong.

They may be boring, but I would NEVER purchase an off-lease "fun to drive" European make instead of a new Subaru for the same price as was suggested earlier in this thread. That strategy does not seem prudent from a financial perspective.

 

[Hollow]

Originally Posted By: wsar100

those timing chains require the same maintenance as a belt, you should do almost any timing chain or belt between 100-150K.


False.

 

[KitaCam]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Plugs about 1.5 hr for all 4, a Camry V6 pays 2.6 hours for plugs. So much for that.



You can't compare time to change plugs on 4-banger with that of a 6cyl engine...well I guess you can, but not reliably...it takes about a hour to change 4 plugs on a Camry...

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: Hollow
Originally Posted By: wsar100

those timing chains require the same maintenance as a belt, you should do almost any timing chain or belt between 100-150K.


False.


+1
Most timing chains and hardware last as long as the entire engine. They get replaced when the engine is rebuilt, but that is to be expected.

Also, if one is failing, you can usually hear it make noises before it fails, unlike some t-belt engines.

 

[BHopkins]

to the OP, go for it. Subaru continues to have some of the best reliability ratings around. The thing that drags Subarure reliability ratings down sometimes, is the BRZ, WRX and STI. Not that these aren't reliable cars, but that they are very popular with tuners. And once you get some amateur poking around under the hood trying to squeeze every possible bit of power from an engine, then going out and driving it hard. Well, things fail.

One poster here has criticized Subaru for having interference engines with timing belts. He is a little out of date. Subaru started putting a timing chain in at least the 2.5 back in '12. Besides, I spend a lot of time on an Outback discussion board. Been there for almost two years, and I have yet to hear anyone who has damaged an engine from a failed timing belt.

Some have criticized the Legacy because it only comes with a CVT. In my opinion, these critics are a little outdated, but at the least it is a matter of preference. From all the reviews that I've read, the CVT being used in the '15 Legacy/Outback is one of the best driving CVT designs out there. Many have commented that it would be difficult for all but the most trained driver to be able to tell between the CVT and a traditional AT.

I see you live in NY. You would be very pleased with the security that the Subaru AWD system would give you. Spend a little of the extra money you would have spent on a TLX and put it into a quality set of studless snow tires.

I can't speak as to how hard the plugs are to change. I haven't done that on my car yet. Although, I have seen do-it-yourself videos made by other Subaru owners, and they say it just takes a few knacks. They can't be any harder than getting the back plugs out of my 3400 V6 in my Alero. The rest of the maintenance is pretty easy. Differential fluid change is a breeze. Oil & filter change on the 2.5 is super easy. Easiest filter change of any car I have ever worked on. Air filter is as a five minute job, but only because I'm a little anal about cleaning out all the debris in the filter box. Cabin filter is about a two minute job. At least for general maintenance, I would much rather work on my Outback than on the Camry I used to drive. Although I haven't done it yet, drive belt appears to be super easy too. Once again, it looks like it will be easier than many other cars I have owned.

You may hear some negative comments about head gasket repairs on Subaru engines. this is a problem that Subaru had on earlier models, I believe in the 2006 - 2009 models. I haven't seen any complaints in 2010 and later models. Interestingly enough most those I know who have had head gasket issues, love their Subaru enough that they get the repair done, and then continue driving their Subaru for many more years.

As far as engine, I have been very happy with the 2.5, but then I'm a little more concerned with economy, than I am with power. But if you still want the power, go for the 3.6. I know some of the auto critics say it doesn't have enough power, but most owners I know have been very happy with the 3.6 power. Remember what the Legacy is made to compete against. Cars like the Camry and Accord, where the 3.6 has very similar power.

Go drive one. I've got a few invitations from Subaru and my local Subaru dealership, to drive a Legacy. I know they are anxious to show it off.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: Hollow
Originally Posted By: wsar100

those timing chains require the same maintenance as a belt, you should do almost any timing chain or belt between 100-150K.


False.


Yea - unless you have one of a few very specific vehicles that are known to have chain problems ... they are legitimately lifetime.

Timing belts on interference engines, no. Although, Ford has started doing a 150K mile change interval on their 1.0T (oil bathed), 1.6 and 1.6T. Wonder if it's oil bathed on the 1.6 and 1.6T.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: KitaCam
Quote:
Originally Posted By: Trav
Plugs about 1.5 hr for all 4, a Camry V6 pays 2.6 hours for plugs. So much for that.



You can't compare time to change plugs on 4-banger with that of a 6cyl engine...well I guess you can, but not reliably...it takes about a hour to change 4 plugs on a Camry...


Yep i forgot they used a 4 cyl engine also in the Camry. I don't see many of them, mostly Corolla and trucks with a Solara 3.0 here and there.

 

[VNTS]

Co-worker has 2013 Crostec, In shop now chowing oil.

Has fought Subaru and had two consumption tests, has 20K miles and now they finally admit they are having a lot of issues with rings.
Is using 1 qt every 600 miles.

Guess they are going to half-arse and slap another set of rings in after a mickey mouse hone job. told him to be screaming for a short block and answer on what is actually problem, tech said they are having major problems on this engine, ring design is terrible and new TSB on it.