MMO, the real deal.

[Trajan]

Yes we do. To show that if you use modern oils, you don't need it. Using it because some older generation did explains nothing.

What does MMO have that modern motor oils does not?

If it does, why don't the oil companies that can spend far more on R&D than some auto wax company makes? It isn't because of your "blended to a price point" claim.

Can you *prove*, not testimonials, which unless backed by data are uninformed opinion, but *prove*, it does in a sump what modern motor oil can't?

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
oK

Lab Ananlysis of MMO


Ok...so after reading the report what am I missing? I have always used it as a passive type cleaner that would prevent engine deposits from forming, or gently clean what may already be there (by gentle I mean not as harsh as say a 5 minute motor flush, WD40 flush, etc.) Your analysis shows that it does, in fact have that capability. I also use it in the gas tank as a fuel system cleaner/lubricant, it looks like it works for that too. Im not understanding why some here still demonize this stuff? I dont claim that it will increase your libido, make you taller or grow more hair, but it looks like it lives up to it's intended use!


Here's another that's been posted many times before, which I've borrowed from time to time in threads.

Composition:

70% Light Aromatic Oil (Pale Oil)
- It is a Naphthenic Oil, so while it oxidizes faster than a Paraffinic oil, it does clean and dissolve sludge and carbon well and cleans up after itself from any oxidation. serves as base oil as well. [Naphthenic oils have more solvency and are more polar (they are attracted to metal more), but oxidize faster.

29% Mineral Spirits
- Cleans Varnish very well. General cleaner. Also acts as an antioxidant.

38 parts per million (ppm) Boron
- AW/EP agent, friction reducer, antioxidant

900 ppm Phosporous
- AW/EP agent

1/2% 1, 2 ortho-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

1/4% 1, 4 para-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

Oil of wintergreen - for the scent
- Not just for the cent, is also a cleaner. may aid lubricity.

Red Dye - for the color
- well this one just colors the stuff.


jk_636, if that comment was directed my way I don't see any demonizing involved but merely reporting what we found in the lab as of April 2014, except for the sulfur of course.



No it wasn't. I was being serious, it looks like your analysis shows it to be effective for what I use it for. Until I joined this site I always thought it worked but didn't have any real proof. This seems to put the argument to rest in my mind.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule


demarpaint, who did the analysis, when was it done, and who made the comments?



That's something that has been on the board for quite a while [as in years], which I borrowed as I stated. It was widely accepted here too, IIRC even you commented about the purposes of the ingredients. The source? Perhaps the MMO forum, but I'm not claiming credit for originally posting it on Bitog, someone beat me to it years ago.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
oK

Lab Ananlysis of MMO


Ok...so after reading the report what am I missing? I have always used it as a passive type cleaner that would prevent engine deposits from forming, or gently clean what may already be there (by gentle I mean not as harsh as say a 5 minute motor flush, WD40 flush, etc.) Your analysis shows that it does, in fact have that capability. I also use it in the gas tank as a fuel system cleaner/lubricant, it looks like it works for that too. Im not understanding why some here still demonize this stuff? I dont claim that it will increase your libido, make you taller or grow more hair, but it looks like it lives up to it's intended use!


Here's another that's been posted many times before, which I've borrowed from time to time in threads.

Composition:

70% Light Aromatic Oil (Pale Oil)
- It is a Naphthenic Oil, so while it oxidizes faster than a Paraffinic oil, it does clean and dissolve sludge and carbon well and cleans up after itself from any oxidation. serves as base oil as well. [Naphthenic oils have more solvency and are more polar (they are attracted to metal more), but oxidize faster.

29% Mineral Spirits
- Cleans Varnish very well. General cleaner. Also acts as an antioxidant.

38 parts per million (ppm) Boron
- AW/EP agent, friction reducer, antioxidant

900 ppm Phosporous
- AW/EP agent

1/2% 1, 2 ortho-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

1/4% 1, 4 para-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

Oil of wintergreen - for the scent
- Not just for the cent, is also a cleaner. may aid lubricity.

Red Dye - for the color
- well this one just colors the stuff.


jk_636, if that comment was directed my way I don't see any demonizing involved but merely reporting what we found in the lab as of April 2014, except for the sulfur of course.

demarpaint, for the analysis you posted, who did the analysis, when was it done, and who made the comments?



That particular analysis is all over the web. Origin unknown as far as I've found.

 

[demarpaint]

I see Trajan answered for me.

I also see the analysis of both products are similar.

 

[Mystic]

I am sorry for the way you have been treated here jk_636. You are a brand new member and do not deserve to be accused of having some kind of agenda. Sometimes discussions get pretty heated here. I don't know if anybody has welcomed you to the website or not. So-welcome!

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: Mystic
Yes, this post did start out as a post on MMO until it was hijacked. I would like to hear jk_636's story also about what MMO did for him. I have used MMO and I still do use it. My Dad used MMO. In the case of demarpaint here he has used MMO for about 40 years.


1. Use it in the crankcase to prevent engine deposits, or to gently clean what may already be in there. Never had any sludge in the engine. Is that because of MMO or regular oil changes? My conclusion: yes. Which one? by this statement, you have no idea which one is responsible.

2. Use it as fuel system cleaner and lubricant for fuel pump. Never had to replace fuel pump. Is that because of MMO, or because I avoid cheap gas like the plague and never let it go below 1/4 of a tank? My consensus, all of the above. Millions upon millions of car have never replaced a fuel pump either, And never see MMO. I've had twenty year old cars that never replaced a fuel pump.

Don't use MMO. Especially after it killed a catalytic converter. Yep, use cheap gas too. With a bottle of Redline SI-1 two-three times a year.

My dad used MMO also, and now I have used it as well. Is it the best fuel system cleaner? Does it clean the engine, protect and lubricate as well as others? Maybe not, but it is cheap, available everywhere and hasn't let me down yet.
Which doesn't mean it works. All that means is it hasn't killed an engine. Lack of harm does not mean proof of benefit.


I have seen two(2) different analysis so far that show it to, chemically, live up to its intended use. How much more evidence do you need? Positive Chemical analysis + positive anecdotal information = looks pretty good to me.

oh I almost forgot about its catalytic converter killing properties...

You really should look up edhackett's comment on that. Maybe you'll get an idea.

Evidence? Let's see it. Positive anecdotal evidence is nothing more than an uninformed opinion when it's backed by nothing concrete.

And you proved how empty anecdotes testimonials are. If you're going ignore the anecdotes you don't like, that just shows your bias.

So now, return to the efficacy of MMO.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
I am sorry for the way you have been treated here jk_636. You are a brand new member and do not deserve to be accused of having some kind of agenda. Sometimes discussions get pretty heated here. I don't know if anybody has welcomed you to the website or not. So-welcome!


Yea that was a [censored] welcome wasn't it? WELCOME!!

 

[Mystic]

I don't know Trajan if you are talking to me or the new guy. If you are talking to me I am not going to restate what has been said in the past. For many of these oil supplements there is never going to be some definitive lab study. It would cost a very large amount of money for there to be such a study.

I would say that if a very large number of guys have a positive experience with a product maybe it is worth taking a look at.

And I would also say we need to be a little more polite to a new member.

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
I am sorry for the way you have been treated here jk_636. You are a brand new member and do not deserve to be accused of having some kind of agenda. Sometimes discussions get pretty heated here. I don't know if anybody has welcomed you to the website or not. So-welcome!


Thanks Mystic, I appreciate it. I am really enjoying this site. Its good to see others that share my enthusiasm for oils, filters etc.

 

[Mystic]

Please do not get the wrong idea about this website jk_636. I personally think this is the best website for learning about motor oils and various other automotive subjects. You just have come into a thread where there have been a lot of heated discussions.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
That's something that has been on the board for quite a while [as in years], which I borrowed as I stated. It was widely accepted here too, IIRC even you commented about the purposes of the ingredients. The source? Perhaps the MMO forum, but I'm not claiming credit for originally posting it on Bitog, someone beat me to it years ago.


As I recall, I also posted a correction to that list. It seems this list gets perpetuated.

My comment was directed more toward this part of the listing:

Quote:
1/2% 1, 2 ortho-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

1/4% 1, 4 para-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer


It would take extra instrumentation to delineate between the individual ortho-chlorobenzenes.

I think someone has confused the the chlorinated paraffins (EP agents which were much discussed and being phased out because of toxicity)) with the ortho-chlorobezenes.



Quote:
Oil of wintergreen - for the scent
- Not just for the cent, is also a cleaner. may aid lubricity.

I have deodorized kerosene here in the lab and it smells kinda fruity, so I question that Oil of Wintergreen comment, because any ester like that would be expensive to add. No ester spikes showed up in our analysis.

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: Trajan

And you proved how empty anecdotes testimonials are. If you're going ignore the anecdotes you don't like, that just shows your bias.

So now, return to the efficacy of MMO.


Trajan Im not sure if you are just stirring the pot for fun or if you really believe what you are saying is true. I, like many others on here, do not have any personal agenda. Am I biased? Of course, EVERYONE ON HERE IS. I am just sharing my personal experiences, as so many others have; both for and against MMO. I do not own stock in MMO or any other product I enjoy using.

 

[Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
How exactly does Trajan know that there is some agenda to promote Auto-RX? A new guy at this website tells about his experience with MMO in a post that, until it was hijacked, was about MMO. The new guy wants to tell his story and we encourage him to do so. And he gets accused of having an agenda?

About about some courtesy to a brand new member? I don't think a brand new member deserves to be accused of having an agenda.

I don't know exactly where it was an I would have to locate it, but I believe that Molakule said something to the effect that MMO should or could be a decent fuel system cleaner.


I accidentally put Auto-RX in this reply instead of MMO. It was a simple mistake and not intended whatsoever.

 

[Mystic]

Very few of the various oil supplements talked about here have receive some sort of major scientific testing. Usually what we have are anecdotal statements from users and perhaps compression testing and photographs.

There have been a few supplements that probably were tested. For example, a few years back Valvoline was marketing its own oil supplements. And I assume Schaeffer's Oil did testing also. I don't know what sort of testing MMO has received but it has been around for decades. Kreen is made by Kano Labs and as far as I know Kano Labs is a professional company.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
That's something that has been on the board for quite a while [as in years], which I borrowed as I stated. It was widely accepted here too, IIRC even you commented about the purposes of the ingredients. The source? Perhaps the MMO forum, but I'm not claiming credit for originally posting it on Bitog, someone beat me to it years ago.


As I recall, I also posted a correction to that list. It seems this list gets perpetuated.

My comment was directed more toward this part of the listing:

Quote:
1/2% 1, 2 ortho-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

1/4% 1, 4 para-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer


It would take extra instrumentation to delineate between the individual ortho-chlorobenzenes.

I think someone has confused the the chlorinated paraffins (EP agents which were much discussed and being phased out because of toxicity)) with the ortho-chlorobezenes.



Oil of wintergreen - for the scent
- Not just for the cent, is also a cleaner. may aid lubricity.

I have deodorized kerosene here in the lab and it smells kinda fruity, so I question that Oil of Wintergreen comment, because any ester like that would be expensive to add. No ester spikes showed up in our analysis.

As I mentioned I borrowed it so I can't confirm nor deny anything about it. If it originated on the MMO board I'd say it is probably reasonably accurate, and it seems pretty close to what you posted. They could have also changed the formula since that is a few years old.

 

[rdalek]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Very few of the various oil supplements talked about here have receive some sort of major scientific testing. Usually what we have are anecdotal statements from users and perhaps compression testing and photographs.

There have been a few supplements that probably were tested. For example, a few years back Valvoline was marketing its own oil supplements. And I assume Schaeffer's Oil did testing also. I don't know what sort of testing MMO has received but it has been around for decades. Kreen is made by Kano Labs and as far as I know Kano Labs is a professional company.


I have not seen any testing of MMO either but I haven't done a lot of looking either. I started to using it because it was suggested by a family member who had been using it for years before that. So far, I'm pleased with the results whether they are tested in a lab or not.

I've always wanted to try Kreen. I've read good things about it but can't find it locally. Shipping is a bit costly at times. I guess I'll just keep using MMO.

 

[Mystic]

I would assume that a company like Kano Labs would test their products but how would we find out? I guess we could contact Kano Labs and ask them. MMO has been around for so many decades in a sense it has been tested. Just at this website alone there have been many, many guys who have used it.

This sort of thing comes up again and again and it gets kind of old. Somebody does not like a certain product that is being discussed, and they say-where is the scientific proof? Meanwhile, if they like a certain product there is no scientific proof that it works either.

I actually am not a real big oil supplements guy, or supplements guy of any sort for that matter. There are a few products I have tried that seemed to make a difference. That includes some products I bought from Lubegard and from Schaeffer's Oil. And it is not as if those companies are some sort of fly-by-night affairs. Heck, Valvoline sold oil supplements for a while.

I still use MMO some. I use Techron fuel system cleaner. I use fuel stabilizer for my lawnmower gas and my wheeled weed trimmer. I have not used Kreen but someday I think I will give it a try.

Just my two cents worth.

 

[Mystic]

well, at least we finally got this thread back on subject.

 

[rdalek]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
I would assume that a company like Kano Labs would test their products but how would we find out? I guess we could contact Kano Labs and ask them. MMO has been around for so many decades in a sense it has been tested. Just at this website alone there have been many, many guys who have used it.

This sort of thing comes up again and again and it gets kind of old. Somebody does not like a certain product that is being discussed, and they say-where is the scientific proof? Meanwhile, if they like a certain product there is no scientific proof that it works either.

I actually am not a real big oil supplements guy, or supplements guy of any sort for that matter. There are a few products I have tried that seemed to make a difference. That includes some products I bought from Lubegard and from Schaeffer's Oil. And it is not as if those companies are some sort of fly-by-night affairs. Heck, Valvoline sold oil supplements for a while.

I still use MMO some. I use Techron fuel system cleaner. I use fuel stabilizer for my lawnmower gas and my wheeled weed trimmer. I have not used Kreen but someday I think I will give it a try.

Just my two cents worth.


I think most companies test their products as best as they can even if for no other reason, to protect themselves from a lawsuit. I don't think any company would want to sell a additive that causes damages and have to foot the bill. Some may test more than others but I don't think a company sells something without some sort of testing to back it up.

You make a good point. My car is not a lab environment. I sometimes drive it on bumpy and dusty roads and other things that are not going to happen in a testing lab. Well, I guess some could. I have seen some pretty weird videos out there. Anyway.

I'm the same way with most things. I use what works for me. I remember fairly well when I saw the "stuff" starting to build up in my car engine. I went to my brother who is a mechanic to see what he thinks. Keep in mind, I had been noticing it building up for a while, so it was getting . . . . thicker or worse or something not good at least. He recognized it and told me to add MMO so I did. By the next oil change, it was almost gone. By the next oil change, it was gone. To this day, it is clean looking even tho it has over 200,000 miles on it. I'm happy.

I may give Kreen a shot one day. Maybe I can find someone else around here that will go in with me and order a few cans, split the shipping costs up a bit.