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#3422051 - 07/11/14 07:44 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: asand1]
Kuato Online   confused


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: In transit...
Originally Posted By: asand1
Its safer for people who don't know how to drive, or tend to panic. I personally think its a nuisance.


+1. IMO over time it can degrade a driver's skill, as they start to rely on it more and more. I am willing to say that most new drivers today don't know how to handle a vehicle without it.
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#3422071 - 07/11/14 08:01 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
artificialist Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 8187
Loc: Florida
GM needed to make a notice on modern Corvettes stating something like Traction control makes the most of a low traction situation, but it can't be depended on careless or illegal driving.

I guess they were threatened by legal action by people who crashed and thought that traction control made the car 100% safe in any situation.
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#3422080 - 07/11/14 08:06 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
Mr Nice Offline


Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 17033
Loc: Orlando, FL
Just because a car has all those safety features, doesn't make the a *better* driver.

I've seen so called 'experienced' drivers wreck their car at the track.
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#3422081 - 07/11/14 08:06 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: artificialist]
Kuato Online   confused


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: In transit...
Originally Posted By: artificialist
GM needed to make a notice on modern Corvettes stating something like Traction control makes the most of a low traction situation, but it can't be depended on careless or illegal driving.

I guess they were threatened by legal action by people who crashed and thought that traction control made the car 100% safe in any situation.


I have seen a newer owner's manual that states something to the effect it can help in an emergency situation, but cannot overcome the laws of physics.

See Scotty's comment here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trekkin'

laugh
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#3422129 - 07/11/14 08:56 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: eljefino]
Miller88 Offline


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 11191
Loc: Onondaga County
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Up to the limit of tire friction, better. Then when you lose it you're like ???

I tried to help someone out of our parking lot; she had new but cheezy all season tires and it wouldn't even spin them on snow/ slush due to the traction control. I had the pedal floored and it sat there at 1500 RPM.

I guess if you get stranded at home or work b/c your car won't try to move, that's "safer". mad


Or you slide through an intersection because ABS won't let the tires skid to help stop at low speesd ...
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#3422143 - 07/11/14 09:09 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
old1 Offline


Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 608
Loc: Columbus Nebraska
Amen to the above

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#3422177 - 07/11/14 09:59 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
thrace Offline


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 371
Loc: USA
ESC helps more often than it hurts safety. Have not disposed of old cars that do not have ESC because they do not have ESC but would prefer ESC if buying a new or used car today.

" There are significant reductions in fatal crash rates when passenger vehicles are
equipped with ESC. ESC leads to reductions especially
for fatal single-vehicle crashes, but there also are
reductions for fatal multiple-vehicle crashes. As
ESC has expanded from sports and luxury vehicles into
the general fleet, the overall estimate of its effectiv
eness has declined by appr
oximately 10 percentage
points compared with an earlier estimate using identical
statistical procedures. However, it still is one of
the most effective technologies yet developed for preventing serious crashes. "

http://www.iihs.org/frontend/iihs/documents/masterfiledocs.ashx?id=1740

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#3422348 - 07/12/14 05:06 AM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 17672
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: Corollaman
We have a 2005 Caravan that does not have traction control or stability control, how much safer are newer cars that do have these systems?


Hugely platform dependent. All cars do not use the same software or hardware, and programming varies hugely by mfgr and model. ABS cyclic speeds are also hugely different from car model to model. Some cars have complete control of the engine and transmission. Newer ones can stop you and some can even alter the course of the car to match up with the steering angle. And more and more...

There is no doubt that it makes the average lowest common denominator type of driver a bit safer.

At Skip Barber class we were taught to use the stability control system on my car as a training aid. If you felt intervention it meant you were not smooth enough! But that is a 'performance tuned' system, which is leagues different than an economy commuter car.
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#3422529 - 07/12/14 09:43 AM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: SteveSRT8]
MCompact Offline


Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 2983
Loc: KY
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

There is no doubt that it makes the average lowest common denominator type of driver a bit safer.

At Skip Barber class we were taught to use the stability control system on my car as a training aid. If you felt intervention it meant you were not smooth enough! But that is a 'performance tuned' system, which is leagues different than an economy commuter car.


Exactly; the performance oriented systems don't really bother me if they have a very late intervention threshold. The ones I can't stand are the "Stability Controls for Dummies" that kick in before the vehicle is even remotely out of shape. Ditto for the ones that cannot be completely disabled...
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#3423630 - 07/13/14 04:22 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
thescreensavers Offline


Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 278
Loc: Jupiter, FL
I keep it on in any car I drive on the street, on the Track yea you have to turn it off.

I have plenty of Auto Cross Experience to correct and I keep the systems on. I understand how it intervenes, I understand when it can intervene and I use it as an extension for car control.


I do not understand people who turn it off every time they drive for no reason other than to turn it off.

Even if you know how to correct overseer...understeer...etc its just easier to leave the system on as it can correct more efficiently(stopping individual wheels) and faster then you can, and most importantly with much less needed space.









Edited by thescreensavers (07/13/14 04:26 PM)
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#3423758 - 07/13/14 07:18 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
sciphi Offline


Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 9752
Loc: Upstate NY
They do help in emergency situations. I'm not the best driver and know it. I do appreciate having a system that will help me avoid a collision, or even assist in keeping the car out of the ditch when hitting that one patch of black ice on a clear street.
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#3424457 - 07/14/14 02:22 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: MCompact]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 17672
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

There is no doubt that it makes the average lowest common denominator type of driver a bit safer.

At Skip Barber class we were taught to use the stability control system on my car as a training aid. If you felt intervention it meant you were not smooth enough! But that is a 'performance tuned' system, which is leagues different than an economy commuter car.


Exactly; the performance oriented systems don't really bother me if they have a very late intervention threshold. The ones I can't stand are the "Stability Controls for Dummies" that kick in before the vehicle is even remotely out of shape. Ditto for the ones that cannot be completely disabled...


Totally agreed. I actually 'tuned' my car to get the nannies pushed back, the extremely minor performance improvements were definitely not worth it. But the HUGE difference in traction control and yaw reactions was! Now the car does not intervene unless you are pretty far out of shape, it really made it much better IMO...
_________________________
"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix

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#3425230 - 07/15/14 07:13 AM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
Mr_Incredible Offline


Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 1388
Loc: Nebraska
Traction control is stupid. I hate it. The only way to overcome it is to have quality snow tires.

Stability control, on the other hand, can be a life saver. Going around snowy corners it's annoying and makes you lose momentum. But on the road/highway at speed, it can keep you pointing the correct direction during emergency maneuvers. This, I have experienced.
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#3425273 - 07/15/14 08:13 AM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
Volvohead Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 3550
Loc: SE Pa
Track and street are completely different environments.

Any competent driver at the track does NOT want stability controls going. Sometimes, you want to bring the rear end around a little, and SC can impede that. Five pushes of the button, and DSTC is disabled on mine on track day.

Conversely, I don't want to see tail outs in crowded traffic from the 18 year olds on 476 around Philly. The more SC there, the better.

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#3425335 - 07/15/14 09:31 AM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Volvohead]
DBMaster Offline


Registered: 09/18/12
Posts: 4042
Loc: Greg Abbott Land
This makes me think of another Rush song, based upon this story from a 1973 Road & Track magazine...

Morning Drive


Edited by DBMaster (07/15/14 09:32 AM)

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