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#3426727 - 07/16/14 05:32 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
Finz Offline


Registered: 06/06/13
Posts: 447
Loc: Northern NJ
I was afraid you were going to ask me this as I may well make a fool of myself trying to elaborate with so many experts in the neighborhood

Let me start by stating that I am familiar with cSt because of this site and I recognize the jargon but to provide a detailed explanation would be best left to others... Here's what I jutst pulled from a google search:

Viscosity is ordinarily expressed in terms of the time required for a st­andard quantity of the fluid at a certain temperature to flow through a standard orifice. The higher the value, the more viscous the fluid. Since viscosity varies inversely with temperature, its value is meaningless unless accompanied by the temperature at which it is determined. With petroleum oils, viscosity is now commonly reported in centistokes (cSt), measured at either 40°C or 100 °C (ASTM Method D445 - Kinematic Viscosity).
The centistoke rating is converted into the SAE weight designation using a chart like the one shown on the Superior Lubricants Web site.

Ok, in my terms: the cSt represents the oil's ability to flow/do it's job at a given temp... Most common benchmarks being 40 and 100 centigrade (aka: a cold and hot engine)

I looked at other postings here and via google to see what most users with your same vehicle were using: predominantly 10W-30 or 10W-40.

In your case, you mentioned you had been using MaxLife HM and KCJeep is using similar (I think) so I went to Valvoline website and viewed the cSt for these oils: 10.7

I recall MMO having a cSt of something in the 2.6 neighborhood from a VOA

I went to www.widman.biz and they have a calculator to help determine a revised cSt when mixing oils. I plugged in the Maxline cSt and the MMO cSt at the proportions you mentioned and it spit out the 8.x I mentioned earlier

What KCJeep mentioned was that your current mix was light... Based on above, compared to the MaxLife 10.x... Especially in the heat of summer.

A shorter OCI would simply mean your jeep is exposed to such light oil for a shorter time frame... Good compared to a longer OCI but exposed nonetheless

Adding a heavier oil would help but to what extent I can't say. First, you would have to drain some of the light mixture to. Make room. Second, the amount of drain/replacement would be dependent exclusively on the particulars of the new oil.

Sorry for the long replay and I just realized you didn't ask HOW I arrived at those numbers... LOL - a lot of typing for nothing but I'm not deleting it

What kind of issues might arise from using to light an oil? I can't say but it simply can't be good

If it were me, I would drain entirely and get something in there closer to what the car is spec'd for... But I'm paranoid about that stuff and there are far more knowledgable people in here to give you more definitive answer as to what to do next

-- bob
_________________________
God Bless America... We really need it about now

06 Odyssey
06 Civic coupe
05 Accord 2.4 sedan
11 Civic 1.8 sedan
98 Accord 2.3 sedan

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#3427213 - 07/17/14 07:50 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: Finz]
niero Offline


Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 39
Loc: MN, USA
Originally Posted By: Finz
I was afraid you were going to ask me this as I may well make a fool of myself trying to elaborate with so many experts in the neighborhood

Let me start by stating that I am familiar with cSt because of this site and I recognize the jargon but to provide a detailed explanation would be best left to others... Here's what I jutst pulled from a google search:

Viscosity is ordinarily expressed in terms of the time required for a st­andard quantity of the fluid at a certain temperature to flow through a standard orifice. The higher the value, the more viscous the fluid. Since viscosity varies inversely with temperature, its value is meaningless unless accompanied by the temperature at which it is determined. With petroleum oils, viscosity is now commonly reported in centistokes (cSt), measured at either 40°C or 100 °C (ASTM Method D445 - Kinematic Viscosity).
The centistoke rating is converted into the SAE weight designation using a chart like the one shown on the Superior Lubricants Web site.

Ok, in my terms: the cSt represents the oil's ability to flow/do it's job at a given temp... Most common benchmarks being 40 and 100 centigrade (aka: a cold and hot engine)

I looked at other postings here and via google to see what most users with your same vehicle were using: predominantly 10W-30 or 10W-40.

In your case, you mentioned you had been using MaxLife HM and KCJeep is using similar (I think) so I went to Valvoline website and viewed the cSt for these oils: 10.7

I recall MMO having a cSt of something in the 2.6 neighborhood from a VOA

I went to www.widman.biz and they have a calculator to help determine a revised cSt when mixing oils. I plugged in the Maxline cSt and the MMO cSt at the proportions you mentioned and it spit out the 8.x I mentioned earlier

What KCJeep mentioned was that your current mix was light... Based on above, compared to the MaxLife 10.x... Especially in the heat of summer.

A shorter OCI would simply mean your jeep is exposed to such light oil for a shorter time frame... Good compared to a longer OCI but exposed nonetheless

Adding a heavier oil would help but to what extent I can't say. First, you would have to drain some of the light mixture to. Make room. Second, the amount of drain/replacement would be dependent exclusively on the particulars of the new oil.

Sorry for the long replay and I just realized you didn't ask HOW I arrived at those numbers... LOL - a lot of typing for nothing but I'm not deleting it

What kind of issues might arise from using to light an oil? I can't say but it simply can't be good

If it were me, I would drain entirely and get something in there closer to what the car is spec'd for... But I'm paranoid about that stuff and there are far more knowledgable people in here to give you more definitive answer as to what to do next

-- bob


That is a lot of research you did. Thank you, good sir!
I am always interested in how people reach conclusions or opinions. I think it ties into wanting to know how things work.

That's good to know about what another Jeep owner is doing. I hadn't even thought of trying to search people's vehicles they list. Normally I put in 5w30. But I put in 10w30 blend, and 1 quart of the MMO. So it's a little heavier than normal, but probably with the MMO it's thinner than the 5w30. I don't currently do the oil changes myself as I don't really know how (I know, it's pretty basic, but I'm not exactly mechanically inclined), and I don't think it would save any money. (Then again, from my experience, people at the quick lube places don't really seem to know much more than I do sometimes.)

If I change it I would just get another oil change. Expensive, but:
1. If it's too thin to protect my engine that could be causing wear.
2. I've been running 5w30 in it from the start (only 1 OCI, mind you), and I have no idea if it was taken care of by the previous owner. So a little more caution may be warranted.

Decisions, decisions . . .

What are the next couple steps up in weight?
5w30
10w30
10w40
??
??

I am thinking of doing 5 quarts of 10w40 and 1 quart MMO.

Thanks again, Finz.


Edited by niero (07/17/14 07:54 AM)
_________________________
1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Tsi
4.0 L inline 6 cyl
Currently running Valv Maxlife synth blend 10w30

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#3427917 - 07/17/14 08:33 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
Finz Offline


Registered: 06/06/13
Posts: 447
Loc: Northern NJ
Niero... I only hope the feedback I've given you even close to correct. I think it is but, again, most of what I've stated has been gleened from the real experts on here and a few google searches

Refer to this link: Widman

You can input your mixtures here and it will calculate for you the resulting cSt. Or, further below on the page, you can input each oil's cSt and what cSt you want, and it will provide you with the proportions of each

Go to Valvoline's website: Valvoline

Click on the MaxLife HM and then click on that oil's Product Info pdf

Note that the cSt for the 10w-40 at 100 centigrade is 14.9

I really need to double check this but I'm fairly sure that MMO's cSt at 100 centigrade is 2.6... Again, I found this a while ago in the Virgin Oil Analysis section of BITOG... You can confirm this value as well

Here, too, confirm this, but my quick look around tells me that either 10W-30 or 10w-40 is widely used by others driving your car

KCJeep also suggested using 10w-40 if you were to mix with MMO

Refer to the MaxLife PDF again and note that the 10w-30 cSt at 100 is 10.7. Since this is a popular oil for your vehicle, that will be the benchmark for the cSt.

Now, go back to the widman page and enter those figures:

First oil: 14.9 from Valvoline PDF
2nd oil: 2.6 from MMO VOA section of bitog
Desired: 10.7 to match cSt from MaxLife PDF for the 10w-30 and then hit calculate

You should be using 83% 10w-40 MaxLife and 17% MMO to get the same cSt as MaxLife 10w-30 (I rounded the numbers and would go 85/15 or so)

With regard to running 5w-30 since you've owned, we are now in an area where I can't be of any help to you at all, unfortunately, as I don't know jack about jeeps

I forgot how this started to be honest and I'm not being a smart-arse, but what does the manual call for?

You might consider reviewing the Used Oil Analysis section on bitog and keep paging thru until you find a few listings from guys with your vehicle or you could PM some guys in here who list jeeps in their signature.I'd guess that there are scores of Jeep forums on the net you could take a peek at. Or just go to the PCMO section here and create a post asking which oil is best: indicate what you currently use, you cars mileage and any know problems or issues, the climate, the kind of driving you typically do... All that good stuff. And then duck - you'll probably get dozens of responses and recommendations

Then just start reading thru this forum... Pick a subject and just start looking around. It will blow your mind how much these guys know and how much there IS to consider about oil and stuff

As for changing your own oil, I'll bet there are a thousand + YouTube videos on how to do this and, although a lot dirtier, it's on par with changing a light bulb.

Get a bucket and a wrench/support the car/ pull the plug and wait for oil to drain/unscrew &replace oil filter/put plug back in/fill with oil. Actual "work" time:10 minutes plus time for oil to drain

Here in NNJ, having a shop change synthetic oil, figure about $60+ Doing it yourself, once you have the tools, worst case $30

For 30 minutes work, you have $30 extra your pocket...

Best of luck and happy reading


--bob
_________________________
God Bless America... We really need it about now

06 Odyssey
06 Civic coupe
05 Accord 2.4 sedan
11 Civic 1.8 sedan
98 Accord 2.3 sedan

Top
#3428285 - 07/18/14 08:26 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: Finz]
niero Offline


Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 39
Loc: MN, USA
Originally Posted By: Finz
Niero... I only hope the feedback I've given you even close to correct. I think it is but, again, most of what I've stated has been gleened from the real experts on here and a few google searches

Refer to this link: Widman

You can input your mixtures here and it will calculate for you the resulting cSt. Or, further below on the page, you can input each oil's cSt and what cSt you want, and it will provide you with the proportions of each

Go to Valvoline's website: Valvoline

Click on the MaxLife HM and then click on that oil's Product Info pdf

Note that the cSt for the 10w-40 at 100 centigrade is 14.9

I really need to double check this but I'm fairly sure that MMO's cSt at 100 centigrade is 2.6... Again, I found this a while ago in the Virgin Oil Analysis section of BITOG... You can confirm this value as well

Here, too, confirm this, but my quick look around tells me that either 10W-30 or 10w-40 is widely used by others driving your car

KCJeep also suggested using 10w-40 if you were to mix with MMO

Refer to the MaxLife PDF again and note that the 10w-30 cSt at 100 is 10.7. Since this is a popular oil for your vehicle, that will be the benchmark for the cSt.

Now, go back to the widman page and enter those figures:

First oil: 14.9 from Valvoline PDF
2nd oil: 2.6 from MMO VOA section of bitog
Desired: 10.7 to match cSt from MaxLife PDF for the 10w-30 and then hit calculate

You should be using 83% 10w-40 MaxLife and 17% MMO to get the same cSt as MaxLife 10w-30 (I rounded the numbers and would go 85/15 or so)

With regard to running 5w-30 since you've owned, we are now in an area where I can't be of any help to you at all, unfortunately, as I don't know jack about jeeps

I forgot how this started to be honest and I'm not being a smart-arse, but what does the manual call for?

You might consider reviewing the Used Oil Analysis section on bitog and keep paging thru until you find a few listings from guys with your vehicle or you could PM some guys in here who list jeeps in their signature.I'd guess that there are scores of Jeep forums on the net you could take a peek at. Or just go to the PCMO section here and create a post asking which oil is best: indicate what you currently use, you cars mileage and any know problems or issues, the climate, the kind of driving you typically do... All that good stuff. And then duck - you'll probably get dozens of responses and recommendations

Then just start reading thru this forum... Pick a subject and just start looking around. It will blow your mind how much these guys know and how much there IS to consider about oil and stuff

As for changing your own oil, I'll bet there are a thousand + YouTube videos on how to do this and, although a lot dirtier, it's on par with changing a light bulb.

Get a bucket and a wrench/support the car/ pull the plug and wait for oil to drain/unscrew &replace oil filter/put plug back in/fill with oil. Actual "work" time:10 minutes plus time for oil to drain

Here in NNJ, having a shop change synthetic oil, figure about $60+ Doing it yourself, once you have the tools, worst case $30

For 30 minutes work, you have $30 extra your pocket...

Best of luck and happy reading


--bob


Thanks, Finz. That is good info and I really appreciate the explanations. I've been doing a little research and I'll take a look at that link you posted. Based on what you and others on here have said I'm definitely going to make this a short OCI. I may end up changing the oil within a week, to be safe. We'll see.

Regarding running 5w30 since I've owned it (in the previous engine), I definitely won't be doing that. Maybe in the winter since it gets pretty [censored] cold up here but from now on it will be 10w30 or w/ an engine treatment like MMO, 10w40, at least.

Thanks again smile
_________________________
1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Tsi
4.0 L inline 6 cyl
Currently running Valv Maxlife synth blend 10w30

Top
#3446572 - 08/05/14 10:29 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: MolaKule]
137_Trenton Offline


Registered: 03/27/14
Posts: 34
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Do you have reason to suspect that the engine needs cleaning?
If not, just use any decent oil on reasonable drain intervals and you'll be doing all you can to protect the engine.
Any recent API spec oil will keep an engine clean as long as it isn't run too long. How long will depend upon the use you make of the machine.
If you do decide to run a full quart of MMO, I'd make the rest of the oil a 10W-40.


If you have hard evidence you have sludge in your engine, try this from Rislone:

Rislone Engine Treatment

It has special (slow) cleaners and additional friction modifiers. It is a 5W20 so don't run the mix over 500 miles.


If you do not have any evidence of sludge, just run a synthetic 10W30 like Pennzoil Platinum.

But since you said

Quote:
I have a 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Tsi, 4.0 liter, inline 6cyl. Had the engine replaced a few months ago. The "new" engine has about 168K miles. New sparks and wires about 4000 miles ago.


How can you put 168k on an engine you just replaced a few months ago?


I would like to know how you go from saying the additive has no advantages whatsoever here http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=474888, to now recommending it to someone confused

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#3446786 - 08/05/14 02:21 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3415
Loc: SE PA
There are *two* products. Top two in the link.
http://rislone.ca/catalog/brand/all/component/engine One is an engine cleaner. The other claims to reduce wear.

See if you can determine the difference. Besides the two different part numbers and bottle designs.


Edited by Trajan (08/05/14 02:23 PM)
_________________________

Lack of harm does not mean proof of benefit.

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#3446801 - 08/05/14 02:30 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: Trajan]
badtlc Offline


Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 3932
Loc: KC
The top two products in your link are the same product.
_________________________
2007 Ford Escape XLS 2.3L ATX Kendall 5w-20, MC Fl910s, 115k+
2012 Mazda 3i Skyactiv M1 AFE 0W20, 6spd MTX Redline MTL, 40k+

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#3446814 - 08/05/14 02:46 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: badtlc]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3415
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: badtlc
The top two products in your link are the same product.


No they're not.


Engine Treatment

Keeps Engines Clean
Part Number:34100 Dosage:In passenger car and light truck engines, use one bottle for a 4 to 6 liter system. Example: If using when changing oil and you have a 5 liter crankcase capacity, use 4 liters of oil and 1 liter of Rislone Engine Treatment. For larger systems, stationaSize:1 L (32 fl. oz.)


Engine Treatment Concentrate

Reduces Friction and Wear
Part Number:34102 Dosage:In passenger car and light truck engines, use one bottle for a 3.5 to 6 liter system. For larger systems, stationary engines and diesel trucks, use 1 bottle for every 5 liters of oil capacity.Size:500 mL (16.9 fl. oz.)


Edited by Trajan (08/05/14 02:48 PM)
_________________________

Lack of harm does not mean proof of benefit.

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#3446854 - 08/05/14 03:32 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: Trajan]
badtlc Offline


Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 3932
Loc: KC
Read the front of the bottles. One is the concentrated version of the other. Click on each product and read the pages there. They list the same problems/benefits.


Edited by badtlc (08/05/14 03:34 PM)
_________________________
2007 Ford Escape XLS 2.3L ATX Kendall 5w-20, MC Fl910s, 115k+
2012 Mazda 3i Skyactiv M1 AFE 0W20, 6spd MTX Redline MTL, 40k+

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#3454885 - 08/13/14 10:09 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
carmine_ricca Offline


Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Pa
I have been thinking about doing this for a few years now but didn't. I agree with the MMO, but as for the carrier oil I don't know. If you did this would change the filter also? It would make sense to even put a cheaper filter on just for the cleaning then drain, refill with your favorite oil. What do you think

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#3455172 - 08/14/14 11:09 AM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: carmine_ricca]
niero Offline


Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 39
Loc: MN, USA
Originally Posted By: carmine_ricca
I have been thinking about doing this for a few years now but didn't. I agree with the MMO, but as for the carrier oil I don't know. If you did this would change the filter also? It would make sense to even put a cheaper filter on just for the cleaning then drain, refill with your favorite oil. What do you think


Hi Carmine,

I would change the oil filter, definitely. I can't recommend what type of oil filter to use because I don't know enough about them. I'm using whatever the shop puts on. If I move out of downtown and it's easier to change my oil myself, I'll probably chock up the money for higher performance filters.
I had 5w30 in my Jeep. I used 10w30 when I put in the MMO, to help a little with viscosity. I may go one step thicker next time.

I'm about 1000 or so miles into this OCI. Next OCI I'm also going to do MMO, just to make sure I get a good, thorough cleaning.
_________________________
1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Tsi
4.0 L inline 6 cyl
Currently running Valv Maxlife synth blend 10w30

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#3455244 - 08/14/14 12:07 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
carmine_ricca Offline


Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Pa
I think what I would do is put a Walmart filter on, 1 qt of MMO then fill the rest with 5w-30. I did this partially this last oil change, I put 20 ounces of MMO in and ran it a few weeks, the oil came out black. After I refilled it I checked the oil and noticed the dip stick was even clean. MMO does seem to work. Carmine

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#3460387 - 08/20/14 02:18 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero]
jk_636 Offline


Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 383
Loc: Texas


I use MMO every oil change with 5-20 in my dodge. Use with confidence, it is great stuff for passive cleaning!
_________________________
2006 Dodge Ram 1500 4.7 [Dino + Pureone]
2012 Ford Escape 3.0 [Royal Purple + Purolator Synthetic]

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#3465900 - 08/26/14 11:01 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: jk_636]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14771
Loc: Iowegia
I don't think I would want to put anything in my engine that would make it explode AND radioactive. grin2
_________________________
"Complaining about a problem without proposing a solution, is called Whining." Teddy Roosevelt smile

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#3465905 - 08/26/14 11:07 PM Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: MolaKule]
jk_636 Offline


Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 383
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I don't think I would want to put anything in my engine that would make it explode AND radioactive. grin2


You have to love '50s advertisements!
_________________________
2006 Dodge Ram 1500 4.7 [Dino + Pureone]
2012 Ford Escape 3.0 [Royal Purple + Purolator Synthetic]

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