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#3400852 - 06/18/14 07:01 PM Where's the documented proof ?
Merkava_4 Offline


Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 13929
Loc: Clovis, CA
Where's the documented proof that the FRAM Ultra is 100% efficient at 20 microns ?

Where's the documented proof that the WIX XP is 50% efficient at 20 microns ?

Let's get down to the nitty-gritty !

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#3400857 - 06/18/14 07:04 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: Merkava_4]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 17031
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Whoaa! Is the smog getting real thick in Clovis? grin2
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#3400866 - 06/18/14 07:12 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: Merkava_4]
jhellwig Offline


Registered: 07/01/13
Posts: 1015
Loc: Ottumwa, Iowa
Go google it yourself.
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1995 Chevy K2500 Suburban lt 5.7
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#3400868 - 06/18/14 07:14 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: Merkava_4]
SatinSilver Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 4512
Loc: Ohio
popcorn2
_________________________
2012 Toyota Camry 62k miles- PP 0w20, oem filter (TGMO all prior)
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#3400878 - 06/18/14 07:21 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: Merkava_4]
901Memphis Offline


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 10692
Loc: Northern Kentucky
First off your information is incorrect. Fram lists their Ultra at 99%+ efficient at 20 microns based on ISO 4548-12 for particles > 20 microns.

http://www.fram.com/oil-filters/fram-ultra-synthetic-oil-filter.aspx


Second the Wix doesn't test under ISO 4548-12 but lists a beta ratio which is expressed at 50% @ 20 microns.

Wix simply may not care to test their filter or publish it properly.

If the numbers are true it's most likely based on the fact that Wix uses 1 layer of synthetic media, while FU uses two layers, so its more efficient from the get go.

_________________________
2002 Buick Century 125k - Built 4T65e(Maxlife) - M1 0w40 /Fram Ultra XG 3387A
1998 Nissan Altima 335k - 5MT - M1 HM 5w30/Fram Ultra XG7317+MOS+ATP 205

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#3400882 - 06/18/14 07:26 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: 901Memphis]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 11907
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Second the Wix doesn't test under ISO 4548-12 but lists a beta ratio which is expressed at 50% @ 20 microns.


It's true they don't reference what test spec their beta ratios are based on ... at least not on their website. They could use ISO 4548-12. Has anyone called their Tech Dept and ask what test spec they base their beta ratios on?

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#3400885 - 06/18/14 07:27 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: 901Memphis]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 11907
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
First off your information is incorrect. Fram lists their Ultra at 99%+ efficient at 20 microns based on ISO 4548-12 for particles > 20 microns.

http://www.fram.com/oil-filters/fram-ultra-synthetic-oil-filter.aspx


99%+ filtration efficiency2

Yep ... per flag note 2:

"2 FRAM Group testing of average filter efficiency and dirt holding capacity using FRAM XG3387A, XG8A, and XG4967 and their leading economy filter model equivalents under ISO 4548-12 for particles > 20 microns."

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#3400900 - 06/18/14 07:44 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: Merkava_4]
steveh Online   content


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 954
Loc: wisconsin
Fram is only listing efficiency on 3 part numbers.

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#3400904 - 06/18/14 07:48 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: ZeeOSix]
Merkava_4 Offline


Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 13929
Loc: Clovis, CA
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
99%+ filtration efficiency2

Yep ... per flag note 2:

"2 FRAM Group testing of average filter efficiency and dirt holding capacity using FRAM XG3387A, XG8A, and XG4967 and their leading economy filter model equivalents under ISO 4548-12 for particles > 20 microns."


With all due respect and in the interest of complete politeness, that don't prove nothing to me.

Nadda, zilch, zippo.

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#3400905 - 06/18/14 07:49 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: steveh]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 11907
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: steveh
Fram is only listing efficiency on 3 part numbers.


Better than Purolator that just references their largest oil filter for the ISO test (L/PL/PSL 30001).

If you look at the sizes of those 3 filters that Fram references, they pretty much cover the small to large range of filters.

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#3400915 - 06/18/14 08:08 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: ZeeOSix]
2015_PSD Offline


Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 5520
Loc: SE Texas
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: steveh
Fram is only listing efficiency on 3 part numbers.
Better than Purolator that just references their largest oil filter for the ISO test (L/PL/PSL 30001). If you look at the sizes of those 3 filters that Fram references, they pretty much cover the small to large range of filters.

+1 - rather than show all of them, it would **seem** they covered the range to show that no matter what size filter is chosen they have similar ratings. Puro's 14610 always dug under my skin a little (it fits my BF750); the 14610 is 99.9% efficient at 40 microns, but a similar filter, the 14459 is 99.9% efficient at 20 microns.

Why the urgent need for "documented proof"? You do not use oil or filters long enough to warrant the slightest concern...
_________________________
2015 F-250 PSD.................M1 Delvac ESP 5W-40 + CQ
2014 Explorer LTD.............M1 AFE 0W-20 + FU
2010 Kawasaki BF750 4x4....RT6 5W-40 + OEM


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#3400925 - 06/18/14 08:15 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: 901Memphis]
earlyre Offline


Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 3152
Loc: Lima, Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
...If the numbers are true it's most likely based on the fact that Wix uses 1 layer of synthetic media, while FU uses two layers, so its more efficient from the get go.



I think you just talked me into giving Fram Ultra's a try, if for no reason other than it never clicked in my head that Fram Ultra would be abbreviated as F.U!

I can just see it in my sig now, "2009 Mercury Sable PP 5-w20, FU3600"

...though I Guess that's why they used the XG part numbers.(yes I know it'd actually be an XG3600, but that's not as funny)


Edited by earlyre (06/18/14 08:27 PM)
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#3400926 - 06/18/14 08:17 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: Merkava_4]
Rand Online   content


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 10251
Loc: NE,Ohio
Hes high on smog and came to bitog to troll today? not sure.

Not sure why he is suddenly demanding proof in such a Troll-lololol fashion otherwise. If its that important phone fram and ask them.
No one here works for them. We can only go by their published information.
_________________________
2015 Forester I-Premium 6MT

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#3400927 - 06/18/14 08:18 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: Merkava_4]
KCJeep Online   content


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 6286
Loc: Mahzurrah!
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
99%+ filtration efficiency2

Yep ... per flag note 2:

"2 FRAM Group testing of average filter efficiency and dirt holding capacity using FRAM XG3387A, XG8A, and XG4967 and their leading economy filter model equivalents under ISO 4548-12 for particles > 20 microns."


With all due respect and in the interest of complete politeness, that don't prove nothing to me.

Nadda, zilch, zippo.


Well that's the test they all use, at least the ones that bother anyway, so if that's not good enough you'll need to invent your own test. Have at it, and be sure to provide us all some "documented proof" while your at it.

Or: (My alternate post)

You are just trolling. trolling
_________________________
2004 Jeep Grand 4.0 @ 132k Pennzoil HM 10w30 w/ 1 qt 10w40
Fram PH8A
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#3400930 - 06/18/14 08:25 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: Merkava_4]
901Memphis Offline


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 10692
Loc: Northern Kentucky
Documented proof? How about all the amazing used oil analysis that use Fram Ultras?

Trace
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3322851/2006_Toyota_Sequoia,_M1_5w-30,
_________________________
2002 Buick Century 125k - Built 4T65e(Maxlife) - M1 0w40 /Fram Ultra XG 3387A
1998 Nissan Altima 335k - 5MT - M1 HM 5w30/Fram Ultra XG7317+MOS+ATP 205

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