Recent Topics
2015 Honda DI and CVT issues?
by Falken
09/16/14 10:01 AM
Adding HD to my comp...
by daves66nova
09/16/14 08:14 AM
Big brothering by Discount Tires
by grampi
09/16/14 07:37 AM
Toyota 0w 20 in a 2014 Honda DI engine
by silverado1
09/16/14 07:26 AM
What do worn valve seals look like?
by Spetz
09/16/14 05:37 AM
4 Bean Soup
by Char Baby
09/16/14 05:24 AM
Whay diesel oil turns black immediately after chan
by DibroTeam
09/16/14 02:15 AM
I need some advice
by sky06
09/16/14 01:24 AM
My 15 year old filter
by SubieShane
09/16/14 12:01 AM
Using a little hot-rod tech on industrial equip
by DoubleWasp
09/15/14 11:48 PM
Headlight Questions
by SubieShane
09/15/14 11:43 PM
Vinyl record cleaner
by whizbyu
09/15/14 11:32 PM
Newest Members
dougout, CDot, mazarnelli, poiyt, VAzx6R
51314 Registered Users
Who's Online
100 registered (01_celica_gt, 1 FMF, 440Magnum, 147_Grain, 1999nick, 9 invisible), 1701 Guests and 195 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
51314 Members
64 Forums
219301 Topics
3460638 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG

Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >
Topic Options
#3400852 - 06/18/14 07:01 PM Where's the documented proof ?
Merkava_4 Offline


Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 9160
Loc: Clovis, CA
Where's the documented proof that the FRAM Ultra is 100% efficient at 20 microns ?

Where's the documented proof that the WIX XP is 50% efficient at 20 microns ?

Let's get down to the nitty-gritty !

Top
#3400857 - 06/18/14 07:04 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: Merkava_4]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14468
Loc: Midwest
Whoaa! Is the smog getting real thick in Clovis? grin2
_________________________
"It only knows that it needs, it does not know WHAT it needs." Spock from Star Trek smile

Top
#3400866 - 06/18/14 07:12 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: Merkava_4]
jhellwig Offline


Registered: 07/01/13
Posts: 381
Loc: Ottumwa, Iowa
Go google it yourself.
_________________________
2013 Chevy Traverse lt 3.6l direct inection
2011 Chevy Silverado lt 1500 z71 crew5.3l
1983 Chevy K5 350
2007 Honda Rincon
1991 John Deere 318

Top
#3400868 - 06/18/14 07:14 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: Merkava_4]
satinsilver Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2911
Loc: Ohio
popcorn2

Top
#3400878 - 06/18/14 07:21 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: Merkava_4]
901Memphis Offline


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 5478
Loc: Northern Kentucky
First off your information is incorrect. Fram lists their Ultra at 99%+ efficient at 20 microns based on ISO 4548-12 for particles > 20 microns.

http://www.fram.com/oil-filters/fram-ultra-synthetic-oil-filter.aspx


Second the Wix doesn't test under ISO 4548-12 but lists a beta ratio which is expressed at 50% @ 20 microns.

Wix simply may not care to test their filter or publish it properly.

If the numbers are true it's most likely based on the fact that Wix uses 1 layer of synthetic media, while FU uses two layers, so its more efficient from the get go.

_________________________
1999 Ford Taurus 145k (Vulcan v6) - M1 High Mileage 5w30 | Fram Ultra XG 3600
2002 Buick Century 102k - PU 5w30 / Fram Ultra XG 3980 / Filter mag

Top
#3400882 - 06/18/14 07:26 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: 901Memphis]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 7096
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Second the Wix doesn't test under ISO 4548-12 but lists a beta ratio which is expressed at 50% @ 20 microns.


It's true they don't reference what test spec their beta ratios are based on ... at least not on their website. They could use ISO 4548-12. Has anyone called their Tech Dept and ask what test spec they base their beta ratios on?

Top
#3400885 - 06/18/14 07:27 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: 901Memphis]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 7096
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
First off your information is incorrect. Fram lists their Ultra at 99%+ efficient at 20 microns based on ISO 4548-12 for particles > 20 microns.

http://www.fram.com/oil-filters/fram-ultra-synthetic-oil-filter.aspx


99%+ filtration efficiency2

Yep ... per flag note 2:

"2 FRAM Group testing of average filter efficiency and dirt holding capacity using FRAM XG3387A, XG8A, and XG4967 and their leading economy filter model equivalents under ISO 4548-12 for particles > 20 microns."

Top
#3400900 - 06/18/14 07:44 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: Merkava_4]
steveh Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 703
Loc: wisconsin
Fram is only listing efficiency on 3 part numbers.

Top
#3400904 - 06/18/14 07:48 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: ZeeOSix]
Merkava_4 Offline


Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 9160
Loc: Clovis, CA
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
99%+ filtration efficiency2

Yep ... per flag note 2:

"2 FRAM Group testing of average filter efficiency and dirt holding capacity using FRAM XG3387A, XG8A, and XG4967 and their leading economy filter model equivalents under ISO 4548-12 for particles > 20 microns."


With all due respect and in the interest of complete politeness, that don't prove nothing to me.

Nadda, zilch, zippo.

Top
#3400905 - 06/18/14 07:49 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: steveh]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 7096
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: steveh
Fram is only listing efficiency on 3 part numbers.


Better than Purolator that just references their largest oil filter for the ISO test (L/PL/PSL 30001).

If you look at the sizes of those 3 filters that Fram references, they pretty much cover the small to large range of filters.

Top
#3400915 - 06/18/14 08:08 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: ZeeOSix]
2010_FX4 Offline


Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 3065
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: steveh
Fram is only listing efficiency on 3 part numbers.
Better than Purolator that just references their largest oil filter for the ISO test (L/PL/PSL 30001). If you look at the sizes of those 3 filters that Fram references, they pretty much cover the small to large range of filters.

+1 - rather than show all of them, it would **seem** they covered the range to show that no matter what size filter is chosen they have similar ratings. Puro's 14610 always dug under my skin a little (it fits my BF750); the 14610 is 99.9% efficient at 40 microns, but a similar filter, the 14459 is 99.9% efficient at 20 microns.

Why the urgent need for "documented proof"? You do not use oil or filters long enough to warrant the slightest concern...
_________________________
2010 F-150 FX4......M1 0W-20 SN EP + FU......(Last OC @ 136.7K)
2014 Explorer LTD....KENDALL GT-1 0W-20 SN + MC....(Last OC @ 15.0K)

Top
#3400925 - 06/18/14 08:15 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: 901Memphis]
earlyre Offline


Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 2164
Loc: Lima, Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
...If the numbers are true it's most likely based on the fact that Wix uses 1 layer of synthetic media, while FU uses two layers, so its more efficient from the get go.



I think you just talked me into giving Fram Ultra's a try, if for no reason other than it never clicked in my head that Fram Ultra would be abbreviated as F.U!

I can just see it in my sig now, "2009 Mercury Sable PP 5-w20, FU3600"

...though I Guess that's why they used the XG part numbers.(yes I know it'd actually be an XG3600, but that's not as funny)


Edited by earlyre (06/18/14 08:27 PM)
_________________________
Mine:
09 Mercury Sable : Meijer(Warren)Full Syn 5w20, FL400s
Mine to Maintain:
03 Pontiac Vibe : PP(old) 5w30, Fram Ultra XG4967

Top
#3400926 - 06/18/14 08:17 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: Merkava_4]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 7457
Loc: Akron,Ohio
Hes high on smog and came to bitog to troll today? not sure.

Not sure why he is suddenly demanding proof in such a Troll-lololol fashion otherwise. If its that important phone fram and ask them.
No one here works for them. We can only go by their published information.
_________________________
2015 Forester I-Premium 6MT


Top
#3400927 - 06/18/14 08:18 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: Merkava_4]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 4539
Loc: Mahzurrah!
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
99%+ filtration efficiency2

Yep ... per flag note 2:

"2 FRAM Group testing of average filter efficiency and dirt holding capacity using FRAM XG3387A, XG8A, and XG4967 and their leading economy filter model equivalents under ISO 4548-12 for particles > 20 microns."


With all due respect and in the interest of complete politeness, that don't prove nothing to me.

Nadda, zilch, zippo.


Well that's the test they all use, at least the ones that bother anyway, so if that's not good enough you'll need to invent your own test. Have at it, and be sure to provide us all some "documented proof" while your at it.

Or: (My alternate post)

You are just trolling. trolling
_________________________
2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 @ 121k Pennzoil HM 10w30
Napa Silver 31515
KIA Sedona 38k, Chevy Lumina 171k, Chrysler Sebring 171k, Ford Ranger 175k!

Top
#3400930 - 06/18/14 08:25 PM Re: Where's the documented proof ? [Re: Merkava_4]
901Memphis Offline


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 5478
Loc: Northern Kentucky
Documented proof? How about all the amazing used oil analysis that use Fram Ultras?

Trace
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3322851/2006_Toyota_Sequoia,_M1_5w-30,
_________________________
1999 Ford Taurus 145k (Vulcan v6) - M1 High Mileage 5w30 | Fram Ultra XG 3600
2002 Buick Century 102k - PU 5w30 / Fram Ultra XG 3980 / Filter mag

Top
Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >