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#3392375 - 06/08/14 05:51 PM z max
built Offline


Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 232
Loc: southern ohio
Does anyone know if this stuff really works, is it just another snake oil additive that claims to clean carbon from your engine and soak into the metal parts to micro lube parts but is just baby oil ?

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#3392430 - 06/08/14 07:00 PM Re: z max [Re: built]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 7181
Loc: Akron,Ohio
snake oil.
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2011 Subaru Forester X Prem. 5MT

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#3392465 - 06/08/14 07:25 PM Re: z max [Re: Rand]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14022
Loc: Midwest
Quote:
Does anyone know if this stuff really works, is it just another snake oil additive that claims to clean carbon from your engine and soak into the metal parts to micro lube parts but is just baby oil ?


There is no valid scientific evidence that it does either.


Edited by MolaKule (06/08/14 07:27 PM)
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#3392471 - 06/08/14 07:33 PM Re: z max [Re: built]
Errtt Offline


Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 2111
Loc: California
Use a good oil and change oil/filter and forget the z max

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#3392489 - 06/08/14 07:54 PM Re: z max [Re: built]
loyd Offline


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 127
Loc: California
Actually, after the 2001/2003 Federal lawsuit, they re-formulated zmax and re-tested it with independent scientists and it did what they claimed. Read the full text on the FTC sight.


Edited by loyd (06/08/14 08:06 PM)

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#3392490 - 06/08/14 07:54 PM Re: z max [Re: built]
Durango Offline


Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 2035
Loc: Los Angeles, California
Don't bother!!!!Check out the FTC website about this
I was wondering about XANO which is advertised in car magazines for a long time

Mail Clerk

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#3392501 - 06/08/14 08:10 PM Re: z max [Re: built]
walk23 Offline


Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 530
Loc: TX - TEXAS
Tried it, didn't see any noticeable improvements.
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#3392504 - 06/08/14 08:13 PM Re: z max [Re: built]
loyd Offline


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 127
Loc: California
Durango, do you mean ZAINO?

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#3392557 - 06/08/14 09:16 PM Re: z max [Re: loyd]
Durango Offline


Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 2035
Loc: Los Angeles, California
Originally Posted By: loyd
Durango, do you mean ZAINO?


loyd,

Sorry I meant XADO "anti wear engine" treatment.

Durango

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#3392566 - 06/08/14 09:26 PM Re: z max [Re: built]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6985
Loc: Saskatoon canada
I'm an open minded individual so over the years I've tried pretty much everything once.
If the stuff didn't help fuel economy I never bought it again.
Mos2 is the only product I've used that I can repeatably improve fuel consumption when I use it.
So I don't bother with anything else anymore,other than ceratec and I use ceratec first for its anti-wear properties then mos2 for the fuel economy gain.
In 4 cylinder engines I've not been able to note any noticeable fuel consumption benefit however on v6 and v8 engines I can,so to each there own.
This xado stuff might work however I won't be trying it,not when mos2 costs 8 bucks a can,and works.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
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#3392621 - 06/08/14 10:51 PM Re: z max [Re: Rand]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 440
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Rand
snake oil.

Not sure about the snake but it's 99% oil.
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2006 Forester XT
2008 Corolla LE

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#3392794 - 06/09/14 08:05 AM Re: z max [Re: built]
badtlc Offline


Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 3536
Loc: KC
There is a guy on this forum running it in his diesel and really likes the stuff.

A very well respected member on this forum (Johnny, might be gone now) was very well educated on zmax and said it was a good product.

Like previously said in this thread, Zmax had to get some of its claims validated to a certain extent in the court of law and did so. Their products are not snake oil but I don't think any product like this will provide you enough benefits to really blow your mind.
_________________________
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#3392904 - 06/09/14 10:12 AM Re: z max [Re: badtlc]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 440
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: badtlc
There is a guy on this forum running it in his diesel and really likes the stuff. A very well respected member on this forum (Johnny, might be gone now) was very well educated on zmax and said it was a good product.

Like previously said in this thread, Zmax had to get some of its claims validated to a certain extent in the court of law and did so. Their products are not snake oil but I don't think any product like this will provide you enough benefits to really blow your mind.

Okay, but what's in it to make it special? According to the MSDS, it is >99% mineral oil. There's nothing wrong with that, but you might use TCW3 or a host of other products that are primarily mineral oil. Since the manufacturer says you can add it to oil or fuel, that limits some of the possible mystery ingredients that might be used.

It really sounds like a close cousin of MMO... except that it's 6 times the price and not as readily available.
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2008 Corolla LE

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#3393494 - 06/09/14 09:34 PM Re: z max [Re: built]
mikered30 Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1282
Loc: PA

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#3393523 - 06/09/14 09:58 PM Re: z max [Re: built]
Durango Offline


Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 2035
Loc: Los Angeles, California
mikered30,

If I remember the FTC's final conclusion....zMAX was nothing more than some sort of refined "mineral oil" and that's all.
They were also ordered by the court to redefine all the claims they made because of the testing.

Personally if that's the case then I'd rather try XADO product instead but the other side of me tells me to be cautious. If the claims are too good then it;s too good to be true.

Durango

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#3393551 - 06/09/14 10:48 PM Re: z max [Re: Durango]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 440
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Durango
If I remember the FTC's final conclusion....zMAX was nothing more than some sort of refined "mineral oil" and that's all. They were also ordered by the court to redefine all the claims they made because of the testing.

Z-Max was another name for Lenckite also known as Linkite and also known as Avblend. Avblend is still sold as an FAA Approved oil additive. All of these products are primarily refined mineral oil - they do not claim to be anything else. There is an interesting history of this group of products on the Avblend website. If you google 'Avblend' or 'Lenckite' there is more information on the web, much of it related to piston aircraft.

The FTC complaint was about Z-Max's advertising claim that it 'soaked into metal'. The FTC settlement agreement specifically permitted Z-Max to continue making this advertising claim. This was an agreed settlement - not a court order. Z-Max also agreed to establish a fund to refund the purchase price to purchasers (before a certain cutoff date) if the purchaser wanted a refund. It is unclear if there were many takers on this refund offer. All things considered, Z-Max pretty clearly held the high ground in this FTC matter.
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#3393593 - 06/10/14 12:15 AM Re: z max [Re: dave5358]
edhackett Offline


Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1492
Loc: Sequim, WA
Originally Posted By: dave5358

Z-Max was another name for Lenckite also known as Linkite and also known as Avblend. Avblend is still sold as an FAA Approved oil additive.


Be aware that FAA approval is not proof of efficacy, only that the product was proven to do no harm.

Ed
_________________________
Never attribute to engineers that into which politicians, lawyers, accountants, and marketeers have poked their fingers.

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#3393779 - 06/10/14 08:46 AM Re: z max [Re: edhackett]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2317
Loc: Upper Midwest
True. I could just as easily sell 1-ounce bottles of plain AeroShell as an "additive" and I could get FAA approval.

Originally Posted By: edhackett
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Z-Max was another name for Lenckite also known as Linkite and also known as Avblend. Avblend is still sold as an FAA Approved oil additive.

Be aware that FAA approval is not proof of efficacy, only that the product was proven to do no harm.

Ed
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 186K
1996 Honda Accord, 199K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 301K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 222K

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#3394547 - 06/11/14 06:38 AM Re: z max [Re: Durango]
GatorJ Offline


Registered: 07/24/03
Posts: 150
Loc: Tampa
Originally Posted By: Durango
mikered30,

If I remember the FTC's final conclusion....zMAX was nothing more than some sort of refined "mineral oil" and that's all.
They were also ordered by the court to redefine all the claims they made because of the testing.

Personally if that's the case then I'd rather try XADO product instead but the other side of me tells me to be cautious. If the claims are too good then it;s too good to be true.

Durango


You remember incorrectly. Zmax was allowed to continue making all of its prior advertising claims EXCEPT one regarding a specific increase in gas mileage.

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#3404491 - 06/23/14 12:10 PM Re: z max [Re: built]
Arctic388 Offline


Registered: 08/15/05
Posts: 255
Loc: Sothern Middle Tennesee
not sure what the gas additive does but i have proof the oil additive breaks down carbon in the engine oil.

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#3404517 - 06/23/14 12:58 PM Re: z max [Re: Arctic388]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2317
Loc: Upper Midwest
Before you share with us your proof, can you explain what you mean by "carbon in the engine oil"? What carbon exactly, and why is it a problem?

Originally Posted By: Arctic388
not sure what the gas additive does but i have proof the oil additive breaks down carbon in the engine oil.
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 186K
1996 Honda Accord, 199K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 301K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 222K

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#3404519 - 06/23/14 01:02 PM Re: z max [Re: built]
Arctic388 Offline


Registered: 08/15/05
Posts: 255
Loc: Sothern Middle Tennesee
I will have to share proof to show you what i mean.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPi_s5p45KGvZfDqHnY1lupx-HVUMkhqy

specifically
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf27FQsh3...hqy&index=8

you be the judge if the carbon is a problem.

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#3404583 - 06/23/14 02:20 PM Re: z max [Re: Arctic388]
badtlc Offline


Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 3536
Loc: KC
Originally Posted By: Arctic388
I will have to share proof to show you what i mean.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPi_s5p45KGvZfDqHnY1lupx-HVUMkhqy

specifically
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf27FQsh3...hqy&index=8

you be the judge if the carbon is a problem.


Holy geez. Now that is one sludge packed filter. Dang man. Well done.
_________________________
2007 Ford Escape XLS 2.3L ATX Kendall 5w-20, MC Fl910s, 110k+
2012 Mazda 3i Skyactiv PP 5W-20, 6spd MTX Redline MTL, 35k+

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#3404614 - 06/23/14 02:51 PM Re: z max [Re: Arctic388]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2317
Loc: Upper Midwest
No, what you said was:

"I have proof the oil additive breaks down carbon in the engine oil".

That was what I was asking about. I wanted to know what carbon was in the engine oil and how it was broken down.

You're really claiming that the zMAX will help to remove deposits in the engine.

Originally Posted By: Arctic388
I will have to share proof to show you what i mean.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPi_s5p45KGvZfDqHnY1lupx-HVUMkhqy

specifically
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf27FQsh3...hqy&index=8

you be the judge if the carbon is a problem.
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 186K
1996 Honda Accord, 199K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 301K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 222K

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#3404653 - 06/23/14 03:39 PM Re: z max [Re: built]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6985
Loc: Saskatoon canada
I followed the links.
I've gotta say that the filter looks just packed with mud. So if I've got a sludged engine zmax certainly works to remove the sludge.
Thanks for posting. It's a cleaner,not a friction modifier nor anti-wear agent.

Good to know.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3429400 - 07/19/14 04:26 PM Re: z max [Re: built]
Arctic388 Offline


Registered: 08/15/05
Posts: 255
Loc: Sothern Middle Tennesee
continuing saga of oil filter full of sludge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joMYbTz4AlQ&list=UUXJa_IXSznknc0d1SBEOa-g

i did not use z max this OCI but i think the 2 previous times using it softened up the carbon inside engine.

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#3429452 - 07/19/14 05:26 PM Re: z max [Re: built]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 20713
Loc: NY
Interesting video^^. Have you considered working with gloves to handle that muck?
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#3430067 - 07/20/14 10:35 AM Re: z max [Re: Arctic388]
GatorJ Offline


Registered: 07/24/03
Posts: 150
Loc: Tampa
Originally Posted By: Arctic388
continuing saga of oil filter full of sludge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joMYbTz4AlQ&list=UUXJa_IXSznknc0d1SBEOa-g

i did not use z max this OCI but i think the 2 previous times using it softened up the carbon inside engine.


Thanks for posting these....can't wait for the movie.

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#3430120 - 07/20/14 11:46 AM Re: z max [Re: built]
Rosetta Offline


Registered: 07/06/14
Posts: 89
Loc: Sta Catarina, Br
Well, isn't Zmax mostly ZDDP and Avblend mostly Tryclesil Phosfate?

No way FAA would approve ZDDP in aircraft engines as additives, since is a huge ash former at cc, when burnt. Only very low ash products can be added to aircraft engines, by approved OEM, since they burn about 1 quart each 4 hours operation in average and can handle no ash, specially in an event: flying on emergency from oil starvation, if ash is being produced engines are much prone to size and freeze the prop earlier in the emergency flyght, leaving the cockpit very silent.
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#3430275 - 07/20/14 02:26 PM Re: z max [Re: Rosetta]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 440
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Rosetta
Well, isn't Zmax mostly ZDDP and Avblend mostly Tryclesil Phosfate?

Zmax is re-bottled Avblend.
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2008 Corolla LE

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#3430327 - 07/20/14 03:34 PM Re: z max [Re: built]
Rosetta Offline


Registered: 07/06/14
Posts: 89
Loc: Sta Catarina, Br
So ... If that's so, then we could conclude it is tryclesil phosfate.
_________________________
1995 Ford Taurus 3.0 Vulcan 78k miles Mobil 1 5w30
1993 Subaru Impreza EJ16 121k miles Mobil 1 15w50
1997 Kawasaki Ninja ZX9R 38k miles Mobil 1 15w50

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#3430369 - 07/20/14 04:24 PM Re: z max [Re: Rosetta]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 440
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Rosetta
So ... If that's so, then we could conclude it is tryclesil phosfate.

If you mean Tryclesil phosfate or TCP, the answer is no.
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