is there any logic to why the repairable area on a

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tire has gotten smaller the past few years?? When i first started driving it was way out there. now these days it seems that anything inside the other blocks is only repairable.

is there any logic or reason why it has shrunk ?
 
Originally Posted By: WhyMe
tire has gotten smaller the past few years?? When i first started driving it was way out there. now these days it seems that anything inside the other blocks is only repairable.

is there any logic or reason why it has shrunk ?

The thinness of the sidewall, the high degree of flexing on a modern radial, the lack of belt and cap plies, the inability to actually see the damage to the cords inside the casing all make it risky to repair a sidewall. Since you can't see where the belt and cap ends, a safety margin is needed. If you have ever seen a sidewall failure at speed you understand the need for caution.

Repairs are still done on bias ply tube type off-road tires such as tractors. Special equipment is used to vulcanize a repair from both the inside and outside. The track record on these repairs is spotty - but at the speeds driven and taking into consideration the cost of the tires the risk is relatively low.
 
Radial sidewalls are very thin compared to the old tube type tires. Michelin has the thinnest sidewalls of any tire made, just push on them and you will understand.

I saw a video on a liquid repair process that does not require buffing the liner and may work on some questionable repairs.

http://youtu.be/h-3TG3mVKnA
 
Here in NY, it is illegal to repair a tire outside the last sipe. NY requires a plug and patch assembly by law. Unless there is enough flat surface to adhere the rigid patch to,, it will not seal.
Rope plugs and patches by themselves are now illegal in NY. Any shop that performs such a tire repair in NY has broken the law and is liable for any damages cause by failure of the tire repair.
 
Originally Posted By: WhyMe
tire has gotten smaller the past few years?? When i first started driving it was way out there. now these days it seems that anything inside the other blocks is only repairable.

is there any logic or reason why it has shrunk ?


Some background:

First, The use of a plug/patch combination is required because the patch provides a reliable air seal and provides a "bridging" action around the injured area. The plug is needed to prevent outside contaminants, especially water, from entering the injured area. The idea is to prevent a separation between components from occurring.

Second, the sidewall area is not repairable because the sidewall has a very complex shape and has a very complex motion as the tire rolls and it is difficult to get reliable adhesion for the patch.

The shoulder area is where the belt edges are and those are the most highly stressed area of the tire. So repairs are not allowed in that area.

The problem with "The Shoulder Area" has always been (and still is) how to define this in a way that would be reliable and easy to remember. Not only were there differences for speed rated and non-speed rated tires, but there were differences between locales (for example, US vs Europe)

There has been over the past few decades, a real push for global commonality in the tire industry. It's been difficult and progress has been slow. There are just some areas where it is going to take a complete change in order to accomplish.

And tire repair has been one of those subjects. It was obvious that there was confusion in the general public's mind about what the repairable area was. So it was simplified down to "Exclude the Outermost Rib" - but even then there is complication: Some tires don't have a well defined "Outermost Rib".

The repair procedures have been evolving over the last 50 years. Radial tires take a different approach than for bias tires. That change itself, required some modification in the published procedures. A lot of what you may be perceiving is just the industry catching up. I'm sure at some point, there will be a further refinement of where the repairable area is. But that is probably 10 years down the road.
 
Oh, and one last thought:

I am not aware of any laws that govern the repair of tires. Not what, when, where, or how.

EXCEPT: There may be some indicating that the front tires on a truck are not allowed to be repaired tires, but I am not entirely sure there is a regulation or this is merely standard practice.

HOWEVER: There have been quite a few lawsuits and those impact this whole area. So while there might not be a law or regulation, legal liability is sometimes a strongly regulating pressure - and some view this as having the same affect as a law or regulation and may even express this in that way.

If someone knows of an actual law or regulation governing tire repairs, I would sure like to know about it - with a link, please. I like to keep track of these things.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: HWEaton
This is why...

22.8 Million Dollars (US, not Canadian) Later...


I don't understand why "laws" have to change because someone didn't do their job correctly??

That is just a bureaucrat's public knee-jerk reaction to a situation... makes the public feel safer (but it doesn't make the techs do their job correctly so is the public safer?).

What happened to the tire repair tech in that $22 mil lawsuit? That is where the fault lay and I don't see where it was addressed. Is the tech doing time for manslaughter?
 
Originally Posted By: salv
Here in NY, it is illegal to repair a tire outside the last sipe.

A quick check in the laws of New York:

Laws of New York

turns up nada.

It is conceivable there is some regulation under consumer protection, which would not be a law but could be the basis for some enforcement action.
 
Further research turns up a *proposed* law in New York:

Assembly Bill 9683 - the Proper Tire Repair Act

which so far as I can find did not pass.

In the proposal a tire repair would be considered improper if the repaired tire had a tread depth of 2/32-inch or less on any area of the tread, or if there were damage to the sidewall, or the injury extended into the tread shoulder/belt edge area, or exceeded 1/4 inch, or the tire had an existing improper repair, or if a repair would result in an overlap on an existing proper repair.

The proposal required the tire to be demounted from the wheel, inspected inside and outside to determine the extent of damage, cleaning of the innerliner, removal of damaged portions, buffing of the innerliner "to create a smooth and even surface", filling of the injury "with a cured rubber stem" and tire patch, or use of a combination plug/patch.
 
Originally Posted By: salv
Here in NY, it is illegal to repair a tire outside the last sipe. NY requires a plug and patch assembly by law. Unless there is enough flat surface to adhere the rigid patch to,, it will not seal.
Rope plugs and patches by themselves are now illegal in NY. Any shop that performs such a tire repair in NY has broken the law and is liable for any damages cause by failure of the tire repair.


Can you provide any links showing this to be the case?

I have read a good number of articles about New York lawmakers considering a bill regulating how tires are repaired, but I have seen no articles saying the proposal actually passed and became law. A tire repair bill advanced a decent amount in 2012, but died because it wasn't passed before the session ended.
http://www.tirereview.com/Article/102576/Tire-Repair-Law-in-NY-Dead-RMA-to-Continue-Push.aspx

My googling has not turned up any stories about similar bills advancing in 2013 or 2014 in New York.

As others in this thread have noted, some people on this forum like to claim tire plugs are "illegal," when there's never been any evidence posted actually showing a tire plug or certain type of repair to be illegal in any state.
 
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Lawyers and Insurance Companies, nothing more.


On the contrary. Mostly there are some very BAD tire servicing facilities still out there. And I'm not just talking about the corner shop patching the family Ford, but big commercial facilities, including large trucks.

Unfortunately, regulations, standards and rules mean nothing if ignored.

I've handled commercial trucking cases where some of the attempted tire repairs that failed and caused accidents would make your blood curdle.

If it weren't for the bad repairs going on, the lawyers and carriers would not be involved. The money they recover for the families won't bring back the dead or fully recover the severely injured.

But we don't abide by the eye-for-an-eye laws here, either.
 
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Oh, and one last thought:

I am not aware of any laws that govern the repair of tires. Not what, when, where, or how.


In Maine it's illegal to modify a vehicle to fail state inspection, one must be inspected, and the rules state:

Formerly Illegal in 2006 (pdf page 67)

...but now legal! (pdf preamble)
 
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Oh, and one last thought:

I am not aware of any laws that govern the repair of tires. Not what, when, where, or how.

EXCEPT: There may be some indicating that the front tires on a truck are not allowed to be repaired tires, but I am not entirely sure there is a regulation or this is merely standard practice.

HOWEVER: There have been quite a few lawsuits and those impact this whole area. So while there might not be a law or regulation, legal liability is sometimes a strongly regulating pressure - and some view this as having the same affect as a law or regulation and may even express this in that way.

If someone knows of an actual law or regulation governing tire repairs, I would sure like to know about it - with a link, please. I like to keep track of these things.



I haven't had to refer to it in a while, so it may have been amended, but take a look at 49 C.F.R. Section 393.75, which refers to tire standards for Motor Carriers, and indirectly restrains some repair and maintenance practices.

You are correct in that re-grooved and recapped tires are generally not permitted on a steering axle. This is both regulated and/or deemed the standard for the industry.

Of course, little of the above applies to passenger and light truck tire servicing.

For areas where the regulations are silent or ambigious, we often rely on industry standards, as opined by experts, to delineate the requisite field duties.
 
Not quite true...recapped front tires are not legal for any tire rated for more than, IIRC, 4600lbs. (A 8.25-20 or heavier tire, as I recall.) They are also not permitted on the front of any bus. They ARE entirely legal on smaller vehicles. (I have driven many miles in wreckers with caps on all positions.)
 
Perhaps I should clarify in that I am referring to Motor Carriers, which is a defined term of art.

Smaller motor vehicles are not going to fall under these federal regulations.

FWIW, even where a statute or regulation does not specifically prohibit a practice, that does not of itself relieve the responsible party from liability where deviation from generally accepted industry standards occurs. At least not in the jurisdictions where I've dealt with it.
 
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