Former Allison Transmission Fluids Engineer

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I've completed the frictional properties testing as promised and can now say for sure that TranSynd is technically equivalent to DEXRON-VI for use in the 6L80 transmission. So, go ahead and use it without reservation.

Hope this helps !!



So you're saying Transynd agrees with the Figures 2-5 of SAE Paper 2008-01-1728?

Page 2 below doesn't seem to cover anything later than DexronIIIG.
Transynd
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
I've completed the frictional properties testing as promised and can now say for sure that TranSynd is technically equivalent to DEXRON-VI for use in the 6L80 transmission. So, go ahead and use it without reservation.

Hope this helps !!



So you're saying Transynd agrees with the Figures 2-5 of SAE Paper 2008-01-1728?

Page 2 below doesn't seem to cover anything later than DexronIIIG.

Transynd


MoleKule,

I don't have those figures from the SAE paper; but, frictional properties compatibility testing (that I refer to) between TranSYnd and DEXRON-VI was performed, at my request, by the same folks that wrote the paper you refer to. So, in the minds of the folks that developed DEXRON-VI, friction properties are the same (not signficantly different) for TranSynd and DEXRON-VI.
 
Tom, I have a babied 2003 Chevy Silverado, with a 4.8 and a 4L6O transmission. At 25K miles I did a pan drain, and a cooling line flush with the Mobil version of Transynd. Exchanging about a total of 12 quarts until the fluid changed color. I plan on doing a similar cooling line exchange at 50K and am debating between my stock of Mobil TES 295, or Delco Dexron VI. The original fluid spec in 2003 was Dexron III.

Which should I choose for my next change and why? Thanks
 
Originally Posted By: ledslinger
Tom, I have a babied 2003 Chevy Silverado, with a 4.8 and a 4L6O transmission. At 25K miles I did a pan drain, and a cooling line flush with the Mobil version of Transynd. Exchanging about a total of 12 quarts until the fluid changed color. I plan on doing a similar cooling line exchange at 50K and am debating between my stock of Mobil TES 295, or Delco Dexron VI. The original fluid spec in 2003 was Dexron III.

Which should I choose for my next change and why? Thanks


No offense meant you are already driving a beast from a GW stdpt -- it would make no sense to go thinner and the real gain in MPG would be unnoticeable. If you are old school keep doing what you are doing on a regular basis than putting in Dex-VI with longer exchange intervals. IMO, there is nothing wrong w/ DexIII other that it is no longer licensed -- there are more transmissions out there running on DexIII than DexVi.
 
I have a question about older specs. Notionally Allison had an ATF spec back in the old Dexron II days as well. I have a number of applications that originally specified Dex Ii, and are old fashioned AT variants (vacuum controlled and use a Bowden cable to adjust shift properties), from Mercedes cars.

I am not necessarily comfortable with non-licensed D/M fluids, and I have concerns also with seal compatability of Dex VI.

Given that I imagine there are lots of rather old HD trucks out there, what would they have specified back in the days of Dexron II, and what would they be recommended to use today?

Thanks!
 
Originally Posted By: ledslinger
Tom, I have a babied 2003 Chevy Silverado, with a 4.8 and a 4L6O transmission. At 25K miles I did a pan drain, and a cooling line flush with the Mobil version of Transynd. Exchanging about a total of 12 quarts until the fluid changed color. I plan on doing a similar cooling line exchange at 50K and am debating between my stock of Mobil TES 295, or Delco Dexron VI. The original fluid spec in 2003 was Dexron III.

Which should I choose for my next change and why? Thanks


Ledslinger,

If you've got a 2003, then you cannot use DEXRON-VI. It will harden and crack the Viton seals. Use the Mobil DELVAC Synthetic (TES-295) product. Do an oil analysis once a year using my Advanced Oil Analysis Kit (JGOA22). That will keep your baby running smoothly and will detect anything going on inside that you might want to know about.
 
Originally Posted By: DWC28
Tom, why did you remove the original PAO 100 and replace it with VII in Transyn?


DWC28,

Do you know this to be the case???? If so, then you know more about the product than I do. It would surprise me (and probably Allison too) if that were true !!!!
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I have a question about older specs. Notionally Allison had an ATF spec back in the old Dexron II days as well. I have a number of applications that originally specified Dex Ii, and are old fashioned AT variants (vacuum controlled and use a Bowden cable to adjust shift properties), from Mercedes cars.

I am not necessarily comfortable with non-licensed D/M fluids, and I have concerns also with seal compatability of Dex VI.

Given that I imagine there are lots of rather old HD trucks out there, what would they have specified back in the days of Dexron II, and what would they be recommended to use today?

Thanks!


At the time, an approved "Allison C4" fluid would have been the recommendation. These fluid approvals included engine oils, DEXRON-II ATFs, Tractor Hydraulic Fluids and Torque Fluids. The C4 specification was published in 1989 (a year before I took over the reigns for oils at Allison). There were around 770 fluids approved at one time on the "official C4 Approved Fluids list". Since that time, the specification has been obsoleted and Allison no longer recommends their use in any product. AT500 Series transmissions (such as the ones your referring too, will do great on a TES-295 approved product. You can also use one of the TES-389 products (basically DEXRON-III fluids that pass a special Viton seals compatibility test). TES-389 and TES-295 approved fluids are listed at Approved Fluids
 
Originally Posted By: MR_TRANSYND
Originally Posted By: ledslinger
Tom, I have a babied 2003 Chevy Silverado, with a 4.8 and a 4L6O transmission. At 25K miles I did a pan drain, and a cooling line flush with the Mobil version of Transynd. Exchanging about a total of 12 quarts until the fluid changed color. I plan on doing a similar cooling line exchange at 50K and am debating between my stock of Mobil TES 295, or Delco Dexron VI. The original fluid spec in 2003 was Dexron III.

Which should I choose for my next change and why? Thanks


Ledslinger,

If you've got a 2003, then you cannot use DEXRON-VI. It will harden and crack the Viton seals. Use the Mobil DELVAC Synthetic (TES-295) product. Do an oil analysis once a year using my Advanced Oil Analysis Kit (JGOA22). That will keep your baby running smoothly and will detect anything going on inside that you might want to know about.


huh?

I know there were some incompatabilities, but on a 4L60E? Interesting. Ive been running Dex VI for years without issues...
 
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
MR_TRANSYND,
Have you ever rebuilt a transmission?


This question might be like asking a mission controller if he's ever taken a space flight.
 
Can you explain what chemical constituent actually hardens and cracks a Viton seal? I realize the polymer is not as highly fluorinated as Kalrez, but what hydrocarbon component will cause it to deteriorate?

Why isn't this strenuously pointed out in the literature about backwards compatibility for DEX VI? It certainly should be.

Originally Posted By: MR_TRANSYND
If you've got a 2003, then you cannot use DEXRON-VI. It will harden and crack the Viton seals. Use the Mobil DELVAC Synthetic (TES-295) product. Do an oil analysis once a year using my Advanced Oil Analysis Kit (JGOA22). That will keep your baby running smoothly and will detect anything going on inside that you might want to know about.
 
More to the point. Why select a seal material that is not suitable for the purpose? Who is to say that the 'problem' existed for some time but went on undetected? The easy way out of that embarrassing situation is to blame the fluid change!
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Can you explain what chemical constituent actually hardens and cracks a Viton seal? I realize the polymer is not as highly fluorinated as Kalrez, but what hydrocarbon component will cause it to deteriorate?

Why isn't this strenuously pointed out in the literature about backwards compatibility for DEX VI? It certainly should be.

Originally Posted By: MR_TRANSYND
If you've got a 2003, then you cannot use DEXRON-VI. It will harden and crack the Viton seals. Use the Mobil DELVAC Synthetic (TES-295) product. Do an oil analysis once a year using my Advanced Oil Analysis Kit (JGOA22). That will keep your baby running smoothly and will detect anything going on inside that you might want to know about.


This is a very serious concern. Does MaxLife have these components or could it actually be better for older units than official Dex VI?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted By: MR_TRANSYND
If you've got a 2003, then you cannot use DEXRON-VI. It will harden and crack the Viton seals. Use the Mobil DELVAC Synthetic (TES-295) product. Do an oil analysis once a year using my Advanced Oil Analysis Kit (JGOA22). That will keep your baby running smoothly and will detect anything going on inside that you might want to know about.


I too would like to know what chemical compounds in either MaxLife or licensed DexronVI would cause this.

Quote:
This is a very serious concern. Does MaxLife have these components or could it actually be better for older units than official Dex VI?


Let's not assume this is the case until we have a fact-based response.

I do know what chemical compounds will cause Viton swelling but harden and crack seals?
 
Last edited:
I agree. I worked as a research technologist for a large corporation, my work was in materials characterization. We used all sorts of fluorinated polymers, never did I see anything that would cause Viton to harden or crack.

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I do know what chemical compounds will cause Viton swelling but harden and crack seals?
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I agree. I worked as a research technologist for a large corporation, my work was in materials characterization. We used all sorts of fluorinated polymers, never did I see anything that would cause Viton to harden or crack.

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I do know what chemical compounds will cause Viton swelling but harden and crack seals?


I have seen extreme heat make it harden and crack, but that was due to either external heat sources, or a lack of lubricant.

I have seen "off-axis" forces, such as extreme wobble or forces not parallel to the long axis do this, but never any lubricant component.
 
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