I decided to cut open a new Bosch Premium #3500 designed for a Ford V8.I'm using this filter in my 4.0L Jeep because it is the oversize filter for my application.I looked inside the thing when I purchased it and couldn't see any type of by-pass valve.Figurede there has to be one and will find it next oil change when I cut it open.Couldn't wait and cut open a new one.Luckily I did...there is NO by-pass valve AT ALL.Nothing on the base plate,just the DBV and on top the spring that holds the filter can in place to the baseplate has one big hole in..and the top of the endplate has smalller holes that butt against the spring.. it but there is NO WAY it can by-pass...I tried believe me...***...so I had an old Mobil oil filter out back draining.It is the #301 for the same application...cut it open and it HAS a baseplate by-pass valve that worked great when I shoved a small screwdriver into it.OK...it must be hidden in the centre column of the media tube...ripped off the media...NOTHING!OFF that POS comes!I realize that G.M has a block by-pass system and a filter system would be moot for a by-pass...but does the 302 or the 351 have an engine block by-pass as well?
WARNING..There is NO by-pass on Bosch Premium!
- Thread starter Greaser
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Uh oh I just started an Auto-rx treatment using a Bosch Premium. The one I have is the base size for a 5.2 Grand Cherokee. I guess I'm gonna have to keep a close eye on the oil pressure then if it's true these things don't have bypasses. I've always thought they were one of the better filters, especially for the price.
Jason
Jason
I started my experiment with oil filters with Purolater Premium Plus..#L30001 oversize(96% multiple pass efficiency,thats whats on the box anyways)...Now I'll step up the quality and go for the Mobil 1 oil filter.These are very well built and claim 96% also.I have to go to the states and get them..with exchange of Canadian money kinda pricey...but who cares..love my Jeep.The Cherokee with the 4.0L had no problems with getting the oil pressure up quick with the Mobil...the TJ on the other hand would have a lag and beep the warning once in a while,mostly when it was hot.So allright I'll try a Bosch Premium..half the cost of the Mobil and a well built filter from all accounts.The lag was worse and the beep came on more often.I only had it on for a week by the way.So I cut a new one open and my results are posted above.Now I'm back full circle and using the purolaters again.Pressure comes up quick and no beep on the dash.Mind you the mounting on the TJ is different than on the XJ.The XJ has the right angle stand-off mount,while the TJ is right on the block.Don't know if this has anything to do with the lag of oil pressure on the identical motors or heat sink is affecting the filter,I don't know.Anyways I'm sticking with the Purolater Premium Plus's in the Ford oversize,can get those local to boot.It has a by-pass I can see at the top
have about 6 Mobils left in a case,will use those up in the Cherokee.
Well Greaser, like I said on another thread, I'm convinced that the existance of a bypass valve varies filter by filter. For example, the Mobil 301 I looked at had a top located valve like Ford prefers in their FL-1A, the Mobil 110 has a bottom located valve, and I couldn't see either on the Mobil 201. And now you are raising the possibility that some may not have any at all. Hmmmm....
The Bosch 3323 does have one, a bottom mount valve, but yet the Bosch 3500 apparently doesn't. Your analysis is particularily troubling because the 3500 cross references with the Motorcraft 820S.
Here is what my Ford owners manual had to say about non-Ford oil filters where a 820S is used:
"Ford production and aftermarket (Motorcraft) oil filters are designed for added engine protection and long life. If a replacement oil filter is usedthat does not meet Ford material and design specifications, start-up engine noises or knock may be experienced."
Now I know that the anti drain back valve causes start-up noise, not the bypass valve. But golly, if the bypass valve is missing on a cross reference filter, one has to wonder how much other non-eom filters are different from the required specs. The anti-drain back valve looks to be critical in Ford's eyes for a 820S filter. If I buy the Bosch equivalent, #3500 instead, which I have on occasion....not only don't I get a "comparable" anti-drain valve (nitrate vs silicone), but apparently I get NO bypass valve either.
Bummer! Let the buyer beware.
[ March 05, 2003, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: Roger ]
The Bosch 3323 does have one, a bottom mount valve, but yet the Bosch 3500 apparently doesn't. Your analysis is particularily troubling because the 3500 cross references with the Motorcraft 820S.
Here is what my Ford owners manual had to say about non-Ford oil filters where a 820S is used:
"Ford production and aftermarket (Motorcraft) oil filters are designed for added engine protection and long life. If a replacement oil filter is usedthat does not meet Ford material and design specifications, start-up engine noises or knock may be experienced."
Now I know that the anti drain back valve causes start-up noise, not the bypass valve. But golly, if the bypass valve is missing on a cross reference filter, one has to wonder how much other non-eom filters are different from the required specs. The anti-drain back valve looks to be critical in Ford's eyes for a 820S filter. If I buy the Bosch equivalent, #3500 instead, which I have on occasion....not only don't I get a "comparable" anti-drain valve (nitrate vs silicone), but apparently I get NO bypass valve either.
Bummer! Let the buyer beware.
[ March 05, 2003, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: Roger ]
lol i posted this in another post by accident...
i purchase 2 bosch premium filters 3312 and the 3323 filter. the 3323 filter is for my moms mercury villiger and much smaller than the other one that is for my honda accord. the 3323 has a bypass spring valve while mine, 3312 has none. i dont get that..heheh...maybe cause her engine is a v6 and mine is a 4cyl. just my 2 cents.
i purchase 2 bosch premium filters 3312 and the 3323 filter. the 3323 filter is for my moms mercury villiger and much smaller than the other one that is for my honda accord. the 3323 has a bypass spring valve while mine, 3312 has none. i dont get that..heheh...maybe cause her engine is a v6 and mine is a 4cyl. just my 2 cents.
The Bosch Premium is the filter in question...the ordinary Bosch might have the by-pass...but not the Premium model that I took apart.The FL-1A Ford is also a filter I can use...by saying top mounted by-pass on the FL-1A you mean the by-pass is near the baseplate,instead of the top of the can?I would prefer this to the by-pass on the Purolater which has the by-pass at the top of the can instead of near the baseplate.If the filter does go into by-pass mode the raw oil doesn't have to go accross the media to get to the journals.By the way the Purolater Premium Plus L30001 Ford filter that I put on my Jeep gives me ALOT faster pressure on the gauge and the warning beep is a thing of the past.What are the ratings for multiple-pass on the Motocraft FL-1A?quote:
Originally posted by Roger:
Well Greaser, like I said on another thread, I'm convinced that the existance of a bypass valve varies filter by filter. For example, the Mobil 301 I looked at had a top located valve like Ford prefers in their FL-1A, the Mobil 110 has a bottom located valve, and I couldn't see either on the Mobil 201. And now you are raising the possibility that some may not have any at all. Hmmmm....
The Bosch 3323 does have one, a bottom mount valve, but yet the Bosch 3500 apparently doesn't. Your analysis is particularily troubling because the 3500 cross references with the Motorcraft 820S.
Here is what my Ford owners manual had to say about non-Ford oil filters where a 820S is used:
"Ford production and aftermarket (Motorcraft) oil filters are designed for added engine protection and long life. If a replacement oil filter is usedthat does not meet Ford material and design specifications, start-up engine noises or knock may be experienced."
Now I know that the anti drain back valve causes start-up noise, not the bypass valve. But golly, if the bypass valve is missing on a cross reference filter, one has to wonder how much other non-eom filters are different from the required specs. The anti-drain back valve looks to be critical in Ford's eyes for a 820S filter. If I buy the Bosch equivalent, #3500 instead, which I have on occasion....not only don't I get a "comparable" anti-drain valve (nitrate vs silicone), but apparently I get NO bypass valve either.
Bummer! Let the buyer beware.
Right, by top, I mean by the baseplate. I've never seen any stats for the Motorcraft filters unfortunately. I doubt they are available publicly. A year ago, or so, there was a guy on the Edmunds site who worked for a manufacturer of filter media. He was very professional and posted quite a bit then. Had good things to say about Motorcraft filters, but didn't share data, even if he knew.
Having just purchased 2 Bosch Premium 3402(Dodge) filters, I was concerned about the apparent absence of a bypass valve. A knowledgeable person who answered the Champion hotline advises there is in fact a "clicker" bypass which you can see with a flashlight as six holes in the dome end. Since the holes are closed and flush with the metal plate they're not easy to see. The way to tell on the outside is if you see the words "pat pending" printed on the dome. He also stated the Mobil 1 would be manufactured with newer clicker type bypass.
Dang, this troubles me.
Just bought a new F-150 Supercrew, getting ready to switch to Mobil 1 and run it at 5,000 mile drain intervals...thus I bought a half dozen Bosch Premiums to replace the FL-820S (primarily after reading the nice reviews of the filter on this board).
So what do I do now....throw these filters away? LOL.
Been lurking here for months but this post was enough to make me register
Just bought a new F-150 Supercrew, getting ready to switch to Mobil 1 and run it at 5,000 mile drain intervals...thus I bought a half dozen Bosch Premiums to replace the FL-820S (primarily after reading the nice reviews of the filter on this board).
So what do I do now....throw these filters away? LOL.
Been lurking here for months but this post was enough to make me register
If the filters you bought are the ones recommded for your engine, they're probably just right. If you have any doubts, contact Champion Labs (sounds like a kennel, doesn't it?) and let us all know what they tell you.
http://www.champlabs.com/custserv.html
Ken
http://www.champlabs.com/custserv.html
Ken
I brought the cut open Bosch to another mechanic to-day to eyeball it.There is NO-WAY this thing will by-pass.The "clicker" or what ever they call it is total BS.The can is crimped on top of this clicker and we both looked at it and there is not a chance this can by-pass...it's a metal to metal contact and the force of the crimped can will NOT
These are different from the ones I have.I purchased the filters for the 302 and the 351 engines #3500...yours are for the newer modular engines.Personally I would blow 5 bux and cut one open like I did...just to be sure...glad I did.quote:
Originally posted by cheeks:
Dang, this troubles me.
Just bought a new F-150 Supercrew, getting ready to switch to Mobil 1 and run it at 5,000 mile drain intervals...thus I bought a half dozen Bosch Premiums to replace the FL-820S (primarily after reading the nice reviews of the filter on this board).
So what do I do now....throw these filters away? LOL.
Been lurking here for months but this post was enough to make me register
I've called them before and got the bla-bla about made to specs and whatever BS...I do my own research and take things apart..if it looks like something isn't right...it usually isn't...been doing this for 30 years and seen alot of "dumb-smart" super whizz-bang things come and go...may-be somebody forgot to put something in a batch or whatever...these are NOT going on my vehicle.
The Motorcraft is a Purolater Pure One with the by-pass at the baseplte..as per Ford specs...did a little snooping around...I'll stick with the Purolater Premium Plus in the Ford for my Jeep 4.0L...it seems to like them...needle comes up the gauge quick and the warning beep hasn't been heard since I took the Bosch off yesterday
i wouldn't buy anything that i would 'expect' to bypass in the first place.
Of course we all try to avoid a by=pass situation..thats why most people on this board use an oversized oil filter for their application..but you need to have one under any circumstance...it's better to have unfiltered oil going to the jourmals than having them scuff the bearings..or worse
Greaser, I'm extremely doubtful that a Motorcraft filter is a PureOne in Ford clothing.
Economically, I just can't see Purolator selling a premium item to Ford at a non-premium price. I can't find the post anymore, but a couple of months ago, a guy posted on the Edmunds site that he called Purolator's tech support and asked. They told him the Motorcraft was not a PureOne filter media. I believe it. Lastly, old Russ Kinze's comments in his study about the Motorcraft having a Pure 1 media was based on the same colored dye or glue or something like that. That's not too conclusive regarding the filter media. I simply don't accept as gospel what has been perpetuated on the internet all these years about Motorcraft filters being Pure 1's.
[ March 07, 2003, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Roger ]
Economically, I just can't see Purolator selling a premium item to Ford at a non-premium price. I can't find the post anymore, but a couple of months ago, a guy posted on the Edmunds site that he called Purolator's tech support and asked. They told him the Motorcraft was not a PureOne filter media. I believe it. Lastly, old Russ Kinze's comments in his study about the Motorcraft having a Pure 1 media was based on the same colored dye or glue or something like that. That's not too conclusive regarding the filter media. I simply don't accept as gospel what has been perpetuated on the internet all these years about Motorcraft filters being Pure 1's.
[ March 07, 2003, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Roger ]
I think Motorcraft are good filters nonetheless, and I use them.
Greaser, if you email me the pics, I will be happy to post them for you. As far as the Motorcraft filter, it uses the same shell as the Purolater Premium Plus and the same silicone anti-drainback valve from the Pure One. Although the Motorcraft filter cartridge has the same amount of paper as the Premium Plus, it is a different paper media. It also has the unique bypass valve on the top. I have cut several of these filters open, and had a few discussion with different techs at Purolater. -Joequote:
Originally posted by Greaser:
I brought the cut open Bosch to another mechanic to-day to eyeball it.There is NO-WAY this thing will by-pass.The "clicker" or what ever they call it is total BS.The can is crimped on top of this clicker and we both looked at it and there is not a chance this can by-pass...it's a metal to metal contact and the force of the crimped can will NOTallow it to do so...wish I could post pics to show you.
Well I'll take your word for it on the Motorcraft filters not having the PureOne media...which wouldn't be all that bad anyway...they are a good filter media...but Purolater does manufacture oil filters for Ford...I don't have a digital camera or a site from which to post pictures...I think that is what is needed...I am not that far advanced in the computor age...I type with one greasey finger..HA..and have worked with my hands all my life so my kids are the computor whizzes around here..I hope that I have taught them something and when my oldest graduates from University with a mechanical engineering degree he'll try and remember us mechanics which have to work on his creations, make them somewhat workable on the shop floor...sorry about the pictures..may-be they will teach me how someday
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