2003 Saturn Vue Sludge Problem?

[ffxfina3]

Hi,

Earlier today, I was changing the oil on my Father's 2003 Saturn Vue today. This has a 3.0L V6 engine in it. He has 149,400 miles on it. The car has an oil life monitor on it an usually, the monitor tells him that the oil needs to be changed around every 6500-7500 miles. This time, it was about 7000 miles since the last change. I've been doing the oil changes for him several years and we are using Mobil Super 5000 5w-30.

Today, I drained the oil out and it came out looking like it usually does, somewhat dark, but not black. Then, after it had all drained out, and I had I replaced the filter and drain plug, I removed the oil fill cap and was astonished at what I saw on the cap and on the sides of the fill tube. See the pictures below. I've never seen sludge before (except in pictures). And it usually is oil colored. What I saw (and you can see in the pictures) is more of a peanut butter or caramel color. It had a consistency of something closely resembling cool whip. Also, as you can see in the pictures below, looking down into the engine, below the fill tube, it looks more normal.

I'm hoping that somebody can tell me that this isn't sludge, but I can't think of what else it might be. Is this engine a known sludge monster? What do you guys think?

Thanks!
Bryan Walton

 

[V8man]

How is the coolant level on this car, something is going on, hope it is not a Headgasket going bad.

 

[OVERKILL]

That's not sludge.

That's oil/water emulsification that is the result of the engine not getting up to temperature to flash all the water off. Since the filler cap is a high spot, if the vehicle is short tripped a lot, you get this build-up in that higher, cooler area, where the water condenses and mixes with oil vapour giving you this.

 

[genynnc]

Get that thing on the highway for 30 miles at least once a week! Probably short trips (less than 10 miles) are contributing to the build up.

 

[Chris142]

Taste it! If it's tasteless it's just condensation. If it's bitter its coolant.

 

[Gabe]

Does this have that infamous CVT??

 

[ffxfina3]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies. My parents definitely short trip this car a lot. The coolant level is good and I believe is also in good shape. I just built put my tongue to the paper towel that I had used to wipe this stuff out, and seems to be tasteless. So, I'm hoping we've just got an issue with condensation buildup. I've just talked to my Dad and they will work to drive it more and get it up to temperature. We will keep and eye on it and their coolant. Fingers crossed that it isn't a head gasket.

As to the question about it having the infamous CVT, I don't know.

Thanks,
Bryan

 

[V8man]

Originally Posted By: Bryan K. Walton
Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies. My parents definitely short trip this car a lot. The coolant level is good and I believe is also in good shape. I just built put my tongue to the paper towel that I had used to wipe this stuff out, and seems to be tasteless. So, I'm hoping we've just got an issue with condensation buildup. I've just talked to my Dad and they will work to drive it more and get it up to temperature. We will keep and eye on it and their coolant. Fingers crossed that it isn't a head gasket.

As to the question about it having the infamous CVT, I don't know.

Thanks,
Bryan


Short Trip driving, no coolant loss, and its tasteless, no Head Gasket worries.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I hope that's from short trips ... not coolant.

Does look like there is some crud inside the VC

 

[caprice_2nv]

I saw this on a lot of vehicles while doing oil changes for summer work this past year. As said by others, it's condensation from short trip driving and the problem is worse now with Ethanol in almost all gas. It attracts moisture, so the problem is compounded. Not likely a head gasket problem.

The CVT was only in the 4 cylinder Vue's, I worked at Saturn as a service advisor for a year back when these were still fairly new and mostly under warranty. We replaced tons of them, under warranty even if the vehicle was out of warranty. So far they hadn't done one where the customer had to pay, when I left and it was a $12000 transmission at that time if I remember right. They were good willing all of them. Couldn't even imagine giving a customer a repair estimate of that kind.

 

[VNTS]

That is oil snot. The filler on that engine must be the coldest point and gets condensation which emulsifies with the oil.

On a 4.7 Jeep there is a long oil fill tube with the PCV valve off it and they get oil snot which every idiot mistakes for sludge.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
That's not sludge.

That's oil/water emulsification that is the result of the engine not getting up to temperature to flash all the water off. Since the filler cap is a high spot, if the vehicle is short tripped a lot, you get this build-up in that higher, cooler area, where the water condenses and mixes with oil vapour giving you this.


Exactly, that engine needs to be driven for at least 30 minutes or longer on the highway. I'd do it at least once a week if possible during the cold weather. To be safe I'd also have a look at the PCV system and make sure he isn't losing any coolant. Seems like you already checked the coolant, good on you!

 

[hemitom]

Have seen that many times on short trippers, has happened on my cars a few times when driven around for a week in winter on short trips . nothing to worry about.

 

[JAG]

The tan colored stuff is oil-water emulsion but I also see hardened dark brown-red deposits. Water is very damaging to oil, making it prone to form varnish and sludge. I'd try to find out how much deposits are inside the engine and go from there, depending on the answer.

 

[[email protected]]

My Father also has a 2003 VUE with the 3.0l DOHC and AWD.

Theres a TSB out on this issue; the PCV hose needs to be re-routed. Otherwise, moisture builds up in it and freezes (in cold climates), and the engine cannot vent out moisture. What will eventually happen (what happened to us) is the crankcase couldnt vent, and blew out the valve cover gaskets!!

When we brought it to the Dealer, they replaced the valve cover gaskets - oil blew EVERYWHERE - and re-routed the PCV hose along the top of the intake plenum.

Ever since the dealer re-routed the hose, I havent seen any condensation i.e. butter in the filler or the dipstick since.

Edit: I found the TSB for you, I realize you dont have oil leakage..yet, but we had the same build up in our oil fill right before it happened and I see you live in a state that experiences cold winters like we do here in Michigan too. Heres the content of the TSB:
Engine/Emissions - Oil Leaks In Sub-Freezing Temps.
File in Section: 06 - Engine/Propulsion System

Bulletin No.: 04-06-01-001

Issue Date: January, 2004

Subject:
Oil Leaks from Engine After Sub-Freezing Temperatures (Remove Ice/Water
from Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) Hose and Re-route Hose)
Models Affected:
2002-2003 Saturn VUE Vehicles
with 3.0L V6 Engine (VIN B - RPO L81)
Attention: Technician

Condition:

Some customers may comment on oil leaks from the engine during or following sub freezing temperatures.

Cause:

This condition may be caused by water freezing in the PCV hose located between the throttle body and oil separator causing high crank case pressures resulting in oil leaks.

Correction:

Remove ice/water from PCV hose and re-route hose to eliminate low sections to prevent blockage in sub-freezing temperatures. Refer to service procedure in this bulletin. Repair oil leaks using the appropriate Saturn Engine Service Manual.

1. Remove PCV hose from throttle body to PCV oil separator.
Important : Do not remove the braided covering from the hose.
2. Remove rubber isolator from PCV hose.

3. Cut the PCV hose to length as shown. Remove 65 mm (2.5 in) from the throttle body end of the hose.

4. Install PCV hose over intake manifold. Ensure routing is between the A/C line and the intake manifold.

5. Install hose clamp over PCV hose at oil separator.
6. Remove the front Outlet Resonator/Duct Assembly-to-Support Bracket Bolt.
7. Install hose retainer, P/N 2043150, over PCV hose and secure with Air Cleaner Outlet Resonator Bolt.
Tighten
Tighten the Outlet Resonator/Duct
Assembly-to-Support Bracket Bolts (L81)
to 10 N.m (89 in-lbs).

8. Install PCV hose on throttle body and secure clamp.
Important :Ensure nylon chaff protection is positioned between rubber hose and intake manifold at contact areas.

Parts Information:

Claim Information:

To receive credit for this repair during the warranty coverage period, submit a claim through the Saturn Dealer System for J6020 (Hose, Crankcase Case Ventilation - Replace).

 

[ffxfina3]

Thanks chiznat20 for the TSB cite. We will look into that. It seem like a fairly simple fix.

-Bryan