Amsoil, Royal Purple, Redline, and Mobil 1question

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I`d say it`d depend on the application. For everyday driving,they`re pobably all equal and neither would show more/less wear than the other.

I would agree with this. In normal day to day driving a person is unlikely to notice any difference with any of them.
HOWEVER
There is a thread onsite here where a poster was using Royal Purple,and another was using mobil 1. There are pics of the cams from each engine. The rp cam showed no wear at twice the mileage and the mobil cam had a visible wear scar that the poster could feel.
It's not scientific but it is interesting.
If you are going the rp route I'd look for something with either their synerlac additive(did I spell that right?) or the hps line.
Amsoil makes a great product however their API approved line is basically in line with any other OTC oil.
Red-line kicks butt however it's unlikely a person would need such a stout oil except in the most demanding application and it's expensive.
Mobil 1 is average,producing average results,for an above average price(here in Canada) Pennzoil platinum produces as good as or better uoa for less money.
Honestly though these premium products don't really perform much better than their conventional counterparts,except in the most demanding applications or extended drains(if applicable).
My hemi had 245k on pyb 5w-20,changed at 5000km intervals,and will still rip all 4 tires when I mat it,so obviously conventional oils can keep engines in great shape over the long term.


Then others post here that off the shelf M1 5-30 produces outstanding results with very little wear even in drag cars.

 

[buster]

Some engine cam lobes may see a benefit from oils that have more ZDP, hence the better results with the RP SL vs M1 SM. You have to take that into account.

 

[Cujet]

Rather than concentrate on what's "best", I consider what's sufficient for my needs. (which are quite varied)

My turbocharged toys need robust, synthetic oils for obvious reasons.
My F150 5.4L V8 needs trouble free lubrication for a lifetime.
My Jaguar 2.5L engine is known to be fragile and prone to failure with thin oils.

My OPE (outdoor power equipment) needs robust, heat tolerant (S. FL) oil.

My airplane needs trouble free performance, with (weak Lycoming) camshaft protection.

Mobil 1 will provide trouble free F150 operation for a lifetime. What more do I need?

Mobil 1 15W-50 will also protect my turbo's components properly, while preventing undue bearing wear under extreme pressure.

Aeroshell 100 works properly in my aircraft. It's a non synthetic, with enough viscosity to provide adequate lubrication. Wear is generally not an issue with this oil.

So, while I could find a more robust oil for each application, I don't need to. As there is nothing to be gained. I simply cannot live that long

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I`d say it`d depend on the application. For everyday driving,they`re pobably all equal and neither would show more/less wear than the other.

I would agree with this. In normal day to day driving a person is unlikely to notice any difference with any of them.
HOWEVER
There is a thread onsite here where a poster was using Royal Purple,and another was using mobil 1. There are pics of the cams from each engine. The rp cam showed no wear at twice the mileage and the mobil cam had a visible wear scar that the poster could feel.
It's not scientific but it is interesting.
If you are going the rp route I'd look for something with either their synerlac additive(did I spell that right?) or the hps line.
Amsoil makes a great product however their API approved line is basically in line with any other OTC oil.
Red-line kicks butt however it's unlikely a person would need such a stout oil except in the most demanding application and it's expensive.
Mobil 1 is average,producing average results,for an above average price(here in Canada) Pennzoil platinum produces as good as or better uoa for less
money.
Honestly though these premium products don't really perform much better than their conventional counterparts,except in the most demanding applications or extended drains(if applicable).
My hemi had 245k on pyb 5w-20,changed at 5000km intervals,and will still rip all 4 tires when I mat it,so obviously conventional oils can keep engines in great shape over the long term.


Then others post here that off the shelf M1 5-30 produces outstanding results
with very little wear even in drag cars.

What does a drag racing engine have to do with the price of tea in china. They run for about 1 minute at a time. Daily drivers can run for hours on end.
I'm not trashing mobil. You've had good results with it,fair enough,everytime I try it the engine sounds like it's gonna blow up.
And if you read my comment I stated what the tread consisted of,not my personal feelings.
I'm not pushing or boosting any of the products,just mentioned a thread where mobil 1 obviously failed miserably in the application whereas rp performed stellar. Sorry if that hurt your feelings. Build a bridge,and get over it.
For every thread you find that says mobil made the engine quiet I can find 2 that say it made the engine louder.
I have no agenda. I couldn't care less what anyone uses. In fact I'm trying different fluids on every oil change until I find something I like.
I used to be a mobil guy and I kept trying it over and over again in different vehicles and engines and in every single instance there was more noise with mobil 1. All of them.
And in all honesty cost is an issue here in Canada. It routinely shows average uoa for an above average price,and wear metals always seem higher with mobil 1. You can't dispute that tig. Now whether those few ppm make any difference in longevity remains to be seen. Personally I doubt that a few ppm will affect the longevity in any engine but if a different oil shows less doesn't it just make sense that it equates to less wear.
I have no dog in this race. Like I said I don't care what a person uses,I just brought a thread to the attention of the OP. He can make his own determination.
Does mobil direct deposit into your account or do they pay per post and mail you a cheque?

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I`d say it`d depend on the application. For everyday driving,they`re pobably all equal and neither would show more/less wear than the other.

I would agree with this. In normal day to day driving a person is unlikely to notice any difference with any of them.
HOWEVER
There is a thread onsite here where a poster was using Royal Purple,and another was using mobil 1. There are pics of the cams from each engine. The rp cam showed no wear at twice the mileage and the mobil cam had a visible wear scar that the poster could feel.
It's not scientific but it is interesting.
If you are going the rp route I'd look for something with either their synerlac additive(did I spell that right?) or the hps line.
Amsoil makes a great product however their API approved line is basically in line with any other OTC oil.
Red-line kicks butt however it's unlikely a person would need such a stout oil except in the most demanding application and it's expensive.
Mobil 1 is average,producing average results,for an above average price(here in Canada) Pennzoil platinum produces as good as or better uoa for less
money.
Honestly though these premium products don't really perform much better than their conventional counterparts,except in the most demanding applications or extended drains(if applicable).
My hemi had 245k on pyb 5w-20,changed at 5000km intervals,and will still rip all 4 tires when I mat it,so obviously conventional oils can keep engines in great shape over the long term.


Then others post here that off the shelf M1 5-30 produces outstanding results
with very little wear even in drag cars.

What does a drag racing engine have to do with the price of tea in china. They run for about 1 minute at a time. Daily drivers can run for hours on end.
I'm not trashing mobil. You've had good results with it,fair enough,everytime I try it the engine sounds like it's gonna blow up.
And if you read my comment I stated what the tread consisted of,not my personal feelings.
I'm not pushing or boosting any of the products,just mentioned a thread where mobil 1 obviously failed miserably in the application whereas rp performed stellar. Sorry if that hurt your feelings. Build a bridge,and get over it.
For every thread you find that says mobil made the engine quiet I can find 2 that say it made the engine louder.
I have no agenda. I couldn't care less what anyone uses. In fact I'm trying different fluids on every oil change until I find something I like.
I used to be a mobil guy and I kept trying it over and over again in different vehicles and engines and in every single instance there was more noise with mobil 1. All of them.
And in all honesty cost is an issue here in Canada. It routinely shows average uoa for an above average price,and wear metals always seem higher with mobil 1. You can't dispute that tig. Now whether those few ppm make any difference in longevity remains to be seen. Personally I doubt that a few ppm will affect the longevity in any engine but if a different oil shows less doesn't it just make sense that it equates to less wear.
I have no dog in this race. Like I said I don't care what a person uses,I just brought a thread to the attention of the OP. He can make his own determination.
Does mobil direct deposit into your account or do they pay per post and mail you a cheque?





Aw leave tig alone. He is entitled to his opinion as much as anyone else here. Not trying to flare you up, just saying.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I`d say it`d depend on the application. For everyday driving,they`re pobably all equal and neither would show more/less wear than the other.

I would agree with this. In normal day to day driving a person is unlikely to notice any difference with any of them.
HOWEVER
There is a thread onsite here where a poster was using Royal Purple,and another was using mobil 1. There are pics of the cams from each engine. The rp cam showed no wear at twice the mileage and the mobil cam had a visible wear scar that the poster could feel.
It's not scientific but it is interesting.
If you are going the rp route I'd look for something with either their synerlac additive(did I spell that right?) or the hps line.
Amsoil makes a great product however their API approved line is basically in line with any other OTC oil.
Red-line kicks butt however it's unlikely a person would need such a stout oil except in the most demanding application and it's expensive.
Mobil 1 is average,producing average results,for an above average price(here in Canada) Pennzoil platinum produces as good as or better uoa for less money.
Honestly though these premium products don't really perform much better than their conventional counterparts,except in the most demanding applications or extended drains(if applicable).
My hemi had 245k on pyb 5w-20,changed at 5000km intervals,and will still rip all 4 tires when I mat it,so obviously conventional oils can keep engines in great shape over the long term.


I also responded to that thread with the Seq IVA pictures that show that a "polished" lobe is actually a FAIL in the test. Modular lobes aren't "shiny", which I'm sure you know, since you've owned a few.

Combined with the fact that there were no before/after measurements and what COULD be measured was within manufacturing variances between new lobes........

The sky is falling.

The stock cam out of my 302 looked brand new with several times the mileage that either of those engines saw. That's in a pushrod motor with much heavier valve springs than a Modular. If you were going to see a wear difference, you would see it in a pushrod motor, LONG before you saw it in a roller OHC engine. The only better candidate would be a flat tappet engine or something with cam over bucket.

Consider this:

If Mobil 1 produced cam wear in a roller engine with feather light valve springs with broomstick lobes, what would it do in a pushrod or cam-over-bucket application? We'd be looking at epic valvetrain failure, wouldn't we? I mean, the EASIEST possible application is the Modular. So for this scenario to have played out in the way it is pandered by you and others on the members here would mean that we have members, PLENTY of members, who have seriously damaged valvetrains from running Mobil 1. But that's not the case, now is it?

Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz, Honda...etc they use roller-less valvetrains in many of their applications. Some of these applications use much heavier springs since they spin much higher than a Modular. If there was an ounce of legitimacy to the claims you are making here, we would have significant evidence from these engines that supports it. Yet we don't.

Nobody likes to pull out the logic hat and look at it in terms of how viable the claims pertaining to this "test" really are. Because if they do, they'll realize how impossible these "results" really are.

 

[wiswind]

Back to the original poster's question.
In my opinion, they are not equal, but they are all very good oils.
Amsoil makes several different oils.....Their OE line is close to what you can get off the shelf in price....up to their top "up to 25K mile" oil.
Mobil 1 is Mobil's "flagship" product with "up to 15K mile" performance.
NOTE that they do not make that claim for their 0W-xx AFE line in terms of long drain performance.
I am not even close to being qualified to comment on the strengths and weaknesses between the different brands.
There are a LOT if different variables..... including how long the oil was in service (time/mileage).
I'm not a long drain interval person.....there is a place for long drain intervals, but I don't think that my application is ideal for that.
Long drains are fine for a vehicle that puts on lots of miles in a short time period.....as in longer trips.
I have enough short trips that make my application not so good for long drain interval.
Not that I change every 3K miles, but I'm not going to go 10-15K miles either.

In NORMAL use, I don't think any of the brands mentioned by the original poster are going to show significant "lobe" wear over the life of their vehicle as long as they use the correct viscosity and reasonable Oil Change Interval for their application.

 

[spag1]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: spag1
So each and everyone of these boutique oils claims they are superior to the competing brands by showing their own data charts to potential consumers. But what about concrete unbiased evidence? Is one better than the other as in one has better wear properties, while the other has better detergents, or both? Or are they all equal?


spag1, this sounds like the PERFECT opportunity for a classic BITOG comparo.

Get one fill of each oil, run them the same number of miles with the same filter, get UOAs and post them up!!

You know something I would like to do that one of these days.

 

[spag1]

I was private messaged by a felow member that Mobil1 is not a boutique oil. So to anyone I offended I apologize. I am just a dumb diesel mechanic who's been doing engine and gear work for the last 12 years.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Kuato

spag1, this sounds like the PERFECT opportunity for a classic BITOG comparo.

Get one fill of each oil, run them the same number of miles with the same filter, get UOAs and post them up!!

If you are going to do that kind of comparison you should do at least 2, 3 would be better, OC's with each brand before doing the UOA.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: spag1
I was private messaged by a felow member that Mobil1 is not a boutique oil. So to anyone I offended I apologize. I am just a dumb diesel mechanic who's been doing engine and gear work for the last 12 years.


I was actually going to post that and point it out to you but politely. Hopefully the person who pm'd you wasn't a tool about it. It really is quite a significant difference between being a major oil company like ExxonMobil and a boutigue oil company like RP, Amsoil, and Redline( there are others ).

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I`d say it`d depend on the application. For everyday driving,they`re pobably all equal and neither would show more/less wear than the other.

I would agree with this. In normal day to day driving a person is unlikely to notice any difference with any of them.
HOWEVER
There is a thread onsite here where a poster was using Royal Purple,and another was using mobil 1. There are pics of the cams from each engine. The rp cam showed no wear at twice the mileage and the mobil cam had a visible wear scar that the poster could feel.
It's not scientific but it is interesting.
If you are going the rp route I'd look for something with either their synerlac additive(did I spell that right?) or the hps line.
Amsoil makes a great product however their API approved line is basically in line with any other OTC oil.
Red-line kicks butt however it's unlikely a person would need such a stout oil except in the most demanding application and it's expensive.
Mobil 1 is average,producing average results,for an above average price(here in Canada) Pennzoil platinum produces as good as or better uoa for less
money.
Honestly though these premium products don't really perform much better than their conventional counterparts,except in the most demanding applications or extended drains(if applicable).
My hemi had 245k on pyb 5w-20,changed at 5000km intervals,and will still rip all 4 tires when I mat it,so obviously conventional oils can keep engines in great shape over the long term.


Then others post here that off the shelf M1 5-30 produces outstanding results
with very little wear even in drag cars.

What does a drag racing engine have to do with the price of tea in china. They run for about 1 minute at a time. Daily drivers can run for hours on end.
I'm not trashing mobil. You've had good results with it,fair enough,everytime I try it the engine sounds like it's gonna blow up.
And if you read my comment I stated what the tread consisted of,not my personal feelings.
I'm not pushing or boosting any of the products,just mentioned a thread where mobil 1 obviously failed miserably in the application whereas rp performed stellar. Sorry if that hurt your feelings. Build a bridge,and get over it.
For every thread you find that says mobil made the engine quiet I can find 2 that say it made the engine louder.
I have no agenda. I couldn't care less what anyone uses. In fact I'm trying different fluids on every oil change until I find something I like.
I used to be a mobil guy and I kept trying it over and over again in different vehicles and engines and in every single instance there was more noise with mobil 1. All of them.
And in all honesty cost is an issue here in Canada. It routinely shows average uoa for an above average price,and wear metals always seem higher with mobil 1. You can't dispute that tig. Now whether those few ppm make any difference in longevity remains to be seen. Personally I doubt that a few ppm will affect the longevity in any engine but if a different oil shows less doesn't it just make sense that it equates to less wear.
I have no dog in this race. Like I said I don't care what a person uses,I just brought a thread to the attention of the OP. He can make his own determination.
Does mobil direct deposit into your account or do they pay per post and mail you a cheque?


Ouch! I just saw this. No need to be upset over this. It's just oil. Not sure what to make of the payoff from XM comments. Do you really think that?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: spag1
I was private messaged by a felow member that Mobil1 is not a boutique oil.


Up here, all regularly priced synthetics are priced as if they were boutique oils.

 

[Ibrahim]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: spag1
I was private messaged by a felow member that Mobil1 is not a boutique oil.


Up here, all regularly priced synthetics are priced as if they were boutique oils.

So True^^^