I checked the Wix site... Even the 2005 Honda Civic is now spec'd for 57356... I think there may be major issues that go beyond the base plate, I am dumping my oil a bit earlier and junking the 51356... not worth the 8 bucks if I am sitting on a sump of unfiltered oil.
Wix Oil Filter 51356 vs. 57356 - Honda Fit 2010
- Thread starter Falken
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I suppose I understand your trepidation, especially with warranty concerns. And yes, Wix has back spec'd many Hondas to the new 7 series filter design.
That said, if we lived closer I'd gladly take the 51356's off your hands, for use in one of the Hondas I maintain.
That said, if we lived closer I'd gladly take the 51356's off your hands, for use in one of the Hondas I maintain.
dnewton3
Staff member
There is nothing wrong with following the "new" recommendation.
But there is everything wrong with assigning a reason why Wix left the 51356 when we have ZERO idea why.
Let me fire off some possiblities:
1) the "new" filter fits the base thread engagement better
2) the "new" filter is less costly to produce, so the margin is greater for them
3) the "old" filter is being phased out of some applications due to problems
4) the "old" filter is being phased out due to some vendor issue (lack of component availability, etc)
5) one filter may have more media (therefore different lifecycle) than the other
etc, etc
What we know for sure is that Wix cannot say the new filter is "better" than the old one for flow, efficiency, size, etc, because the two are identical except for the baseplate design. The performance criteria simply show these two filter to be exact duplicates. It is the physical property of base plate that changes, as best I can tell, visually. And the "new" filter is nitrile versus silicone, is it not? The new filter isn't a "better" filter, it's a "revised" filter. It's no more or less capable in this application to filter, but it might be "better" (or maybe not) for fit up. I don't know; I don't own this car/filter combo.
But my point is that while we can accept the decision at face value for Wix to change filter recommendation, we cannot fairly assign the cause of that change; we have no idea what the rationale is behind the shift in recommendation. And therefore it's unfair to say that the new filter is better or worse; it's only different.
Where I work now, we are in the process of spec'ing new "equal alternate" components as a cost savings. It has ZERO to do with quality or performance. The new items will neither add nor detract for actual field performance, but they will add to our bottom line. Did it occur to anyone that Wix may have (this is not an assurance) changed the filter recommendation just because it benefits them, but not us???
Here's what I find perplexing:
- many members on this site seek out "oversized" or "larger" filters, because they believe it's "better" somehow. They are willing to go out on their own, against a formal recommendation, because they think that they can find a "better" filter on their own.
- and yet other members here will worry about a "new" filter spec that supersedes a former filter, even with no idea as to WHY the filter was changed.
Ironic, is it not?
We are a fairly divers group here at BITOg; we own many vehicles. Just how many of us have had equipment die because Wix improperly spec'd a filter, anyway?
But there is everything wrong with assigning a reason why Wix left the 51356 when we have ZERO idea why.
Let me fire off some possiblities:
1) the "new" filter fits the base thread engagement better
2) the "new" filter is less costly to produce, so the margin is greater for them
3) the "old" filter is being phased out of some applications due to problems
4) the "old" filter is being phased out due to some vendor issue (lack of component availability, etc)
5) one filter may have more media (therefore different lifecycle) than the other
etc, etc
What we know for sure is that Wix cannot say the new filter is "better" than the old one for flow, efficiency, size, etc, because the two are identical except for the baseplate design. The performance criteria simply show these two filter to be exact duplicates. It is the physical property of base plate that changes, as best I can tell, visually. And the "new" filter is nitrile versus silicone, is it not? The new filter isn't a "better" filter, it's a "revised" filter. It's no more or less capable in this application to filter, but it might be "better" (or maybe not) for fit up. I don't know; I don't own this car/filter combo.
But my point is that while we can accept the decision at face value for Wix to change filter recommendation, we cannot fairly assign the cause of that change; we have no idea what the rationale is behind the shift in recommendation. And therefore it's unfair to say that the new filter is better or worse; it's only different.
Where I work now, we are in the process of spec'ing new "equal alternate" components as a cost savings. It has ZERO to do with quality or performance. The new items will neither add nor detract for actual field performance, but they will add to our bottom line. Did it occur to anyone that Wix may have (this is not an assurance) changed the filter recommendation just because it benefits them, but not us???
Here's what I find perplexing:
- many members on this site seek out "oversized" or "larger" filters, because they believe it's "better" somehow. They are willing to go out on their own, against a formal recommendation, because they think that they can find a "better" filter on their own.
- and yet other members here will worry about a "new" filter spec that supersedes a former filter, even with no idea as to WHY the filter was changed.
Ironic, is it not?
We are a fairly divers group here at BITOg; we own many vehicles. Just how many of us have had equipment die because Wix improperly spec'd a filter, anyway?
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Originally Posted By: Falken
We are an ocean of FRAM.
My only alternative away from the WIX teat is Mobil (K&N) filters but they are 16$ each, and I get no discounts from Canadian Tire. Before I did that I'd hunt down RP filters.
Absolutely. I had never heard of Supertech oil filters until I started browsing this site. With respect to the Fram synthetic filter, they're 15% off this month at Partsource, $10.19 according to their online flyer. Right now, that would be my filter of choice if I had to buy locally and could not get my corporate discounts at other suppliers.
With respect to the 51356, I have one or two of them in stock, since I wanted to compare them to the 51365 (which is now replaced by the 51358 for my application anyhow). I'm still going to use them.
We are an ocean of FRAM.
My only alternative away from the WIX teat is Mobil (K&N) filters but they are 16$ each, and I get no discounts from Canadian Tire. Before I did that I'd hunt down RP filters.
Absolutely. I had never heard of Supertech oil filters until I started browsing this site. With respect to the Fram synthetic filter, they're 15% off this month at Partsource, $10.19 according to their online flyer. Right now, that would be my filter of choice if I had to buy locally and could not get my corporate discounts at other suppliers.
With respect to the 51356, I have one or two of them in stock, since I wanted to compare them to the 51365 (which is now replaced by the 51358 for my application anyhow). I'm still going to use them.
Garak, I agree... We use some questionable Defender brand oil filters in a white box at school, nobody seems to care, they seem to work.
I am going to give this filter to a guy at school in class with me who has an older Honda, I can get these filters for 8$ without a student / mechanic discount, in a case of 12 I could probably get the for 6.50$ each from Canton so I am not saving much by using it.
I just find it great when a company just stands 100% behind it's stuff... Component refits and unwarrantying stuff is very half a55ed in my opinion. Not cool. And they were sure quiet about it.
As dnewton said, it is probably because they can save a bit of money on each unit... Ugly white can and nitrile - the evidence is there and we didn't even have to cut one open or weigh one.
I am going to give this filter to a guy at school in class with me who has an older Honda, I can get these filters for 8$ without a student / mechanic discount, in a case of 12 I could probably get the for 6.50$ each from Canton so I am not saving much by using it.
I just find it great when a company just stands 100% behind it's stuff... Component refits and unwarrantying stuff is very half a55ed in my opinion. Not cool. And they were sure quiet about it.
As dnewton said, it is probably because they can save a bit of money on each unit... Ugly white can and nitrile - the evidence is there and we didn't even have to cut one open or weigh one.
Just checked, all compatibility for Honda cars is pulled... The Wix / Napa 51356 (1356) was well known to people who drove Hondas for a long time for many models and years, even the Element...
I was just looking at the two filters, the 51356 is a gem, the 57356 looks like a no name brand unit... I am starting to agree more and more with the idea that they make a cheap filter to backspec it to reduce costs and make more profit and discontinue the warranty support as the filter still exists for many applications still.
Oh well, and Wix is making filters too now in Mexico I've heard...
I was just looking at the two filters, the 51356 is a gem, the 57356 looks like a no name brand unit... I am starting to agree more and more with the idea that they make a cheap filter to backspec it to reduce costs and make more profit and discontinue the warranty support as the filter still exists for many applications still.
Oh well, and Wix is making filters too now in Mexico I've heard...
Originally Posted By: Falken
Garak, I agree... We use some questionable Defender brand oil filters in a white box at school, nobody seems to care, they seem to work.
I think those are Honeywell (Fram), too. There's a bunch of them at our Partsource stores. I've never been tempted.
What bugs me about Wix's switch in my application is the cost, too. The 51358 (new specification) has the nitrile ADBV, but costs more than either the 51356 (oversized) or 51365 (previous specification). And it's closer to a dollar more; it's not like twenty-five cents, either. In any event, it's one of the more attractively priced options for me. NAPA can't match my local Wix dealer. I can get Hastings for a bit cheaper. I can get Bosch much cheaper, but then I'm ordering online, and if I don't get enough stuff, I get nailed for shipping.
Check Autopartsway's Canadian site and see what you can find, if you want to see what's available there. For import applications, they're hard to beat. For my G and the old Audi, a quality filter is about half the price of anywhere else. For my old F-150, I do better locally.
Garak, I agree... We use some questionable Defender brand oil filters in a white box at school, nobody seems to care, they seem to work.
I think those are Honeywell (Fram), too. There's a bunch of them at our Partsource stores. I've never been tempted.
What bugs me about Wix's switch in my application is the cost, too. The 51358 (new specification) has the nitrile ADBV, but costs more than either the 51356 (oversized) or 51365 (previous specification). And it's closer to a dollar more; it's not like twenty-five cents, either. In any event, it's one of the more attractively priced options for me. NAPA can't match my local Wix dealer. I can get Hastings for a bit cheaper. I can get Bosch much cheaper, but then I'm ordering online, and if I don't get enough stuff, I get nailed for shipping.
Check Autopartsway's Canadian site and see what you can find, if you want to see what's available there. For import applications, they're hard to beat. For my G and the old Audi, a quality filter is about half the price of anywhere else. For my old F-150, I do better locally.
Garak, what is your opinion of Bosch? It is the only filter that I may have a remote chance of finding.
I like the IDEA of Mobil EP filters, but I am concerned out reports of low oil pressure from the filter being far too restrictive, but they seem to be made well.
What is the general opinion of FRAM xTended Guard? They actually look like they are built properly.
WIX has Eastern Canada locked down for anyone that doesn't like FRAM. They truly are the only good deal, well made filter. Any other option is a 15$ filter, which I am not doing.
I like the IDEA of Mobil EP filters, but I am concerned out reports of low oil pressure from the filter being far too restrictive, but they seem to be made well.
What is the general opinion of FRAM xTended Guard? They actually look like they are built properly.
WIX has Eastern Canada locked down for anyone that doesn't like FRAM. They truly are the only good deal, well made filter. Any other option is a 15$ filter, which I am not doing.
Wow, what an uninformed auto enthusiast could stick on a beloved vehicle... ToughGuard my (edit - mod)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cxiiy7odmA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cxiiy7odmA
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The Xtended Guard, now named Ultra, is a FANTASTIC filter. Metal end caps with synthetic media. There have been pics of them on here with 10k miles on them. Top notch filter that's less expensive than other top of the line filters.
Originally Posted By: Falken
Garak, what is your opinion of Bosch? It is the only filter that I may have a remote chance of finding.
They're reputedly pretty similar to a P1, but I've never had a P1 to compare it with. I've used a lot of Bosch filters, though I have to order them online, and am happy with them. If I could get them locally (which I can't, except for German applications) and at the price I get them online, I'd use nothing but. Autopartsway might be your best bet. If you need any other parts or an air filter or something, it might get you over the $75 required for free shipping. They're quick, too.
I'd have no issues with the Fram Synthetic filter, either. Here, it's pretty much Wix and Fram, too, with at least one retailer selling AC as well.
Garak, what is your opinion of Bosch? It is the only filter that I may have a remote chance of finding.
They're reputedly pretty similar to a P1, but I've never had a P1 to compare it with. I've used a lot of Bosch filters, though I have to order them online, and am happy with them. If I could get them locally (which I can't, except for German applications) and at the price I get them online, I'd use nothing but. Autopartsway might be your best bet. If you need any other parts or an air filter or something, it might get you over the $75 required for free shipping. They're quick, too.
I'd have no issues with the Fram Synthetic filter, either. Here, it's pretty much Wix and Fram, too, with at least one retailer selling AC as well.
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dnewton3
Staff member
This topic is not foriegn to me, but not because of cars.
The GL1500 and GL1800 series of Honda motorcycles (as well as many others) have this same issue with these very same filters.
They have been recommending the 51358 for my Wing for a while now.
But I choose the 51365 because it's easier to fit, and it has the silicone ADBV.
Am I at risk because it's not the spec'd filter? Yes.
Am I worried about my choice to venture off the reservation? Not in the least. Warranty is long gone. I'm sticking with the "better" filter in my view, as defined by my criteria.
If Wix is going to start recommending inferior filters (that's MY Term, and not theirs, as defined on my own ROI scale), then they risk me moving on to another brand. Wix has a well earned reputation for great filters at good prices, but to be honest, they have recently let me down. Not in their products, but their poor tech service answers, and now these piddly little shifts in filter selection, and the recent "white-washing" of beta data on their site. I've always gone a bit beyond to order filters on the net from Wix/NG, seeking a little bit of what I percieve to be "better" filters.
I might as well walk in and get a decent Purolator Classic or MC filter at WallyWorld; they are good, easily had, and are made well at a decent price. Point is this: if Wix is going to "cheapen" their filter line by recommending certain filters that bolster their bottom line at the expense of my getting good information, then I might as well go elsewhere. I used to like Wix because the filters are good, and the info they had made them a cut above; they shared more than their competitors.
Now, if they are going to act like their competitors, by hiding info and making their bottom line more important that mine, then they no longer have my loyality. They still make good filters, but I'm not going to go out of my way to get them if they make it a hard game for me to guess what filter I need past their own recommendation.
The GL1500 and GL1800 series of Honda motorcycles (as well as many others) have this same issue with these very same filters.
They have been recommending the 51358 for my Wing for a while now.
But I choose the 51365 because it's easier to fit, and it has the silicone ADBV.
Am I at risk because it's not the spec'd filter? Yes.
Am I worried about my choice to venture off the reservation? Not in the least. Warranty is long gone. I'm sticking with the "better" filter in my view, as defined by my criteria.
If Wix is going to start recommending inferior filters (that's MY Term, and not theirs, as defined on my own ROI scale), then they risk me moving on to another brand. Wix has a well earned reputation for great filters at good prices, but to be honest, they have recently let me down. Not in their products, but their poor tech service answers, and now these piddly little shifts in filter selection, and the recent "white-washing" of beta data on their site. I've always gone a bit beyond to order filters on the net from Wix/NG, seeking a little bit of what I percieve to be "better" filters.
I might as well walk in and get a decent Purolator Classic or MC filter at WallyWorld; they are good, easily had, and are made well at a decent price. Point is this: if Wix is going to "cheapen" their filter line by recommending certain filters that bolster their bottom line at the expense of my getting good information, then I might as well go elsewhere. I used to like Wix because the filters are good, and the info they had made them a cut above; they shared more than their competitors.
Now, if they are going to act like their competitors, by hiding info and making their bottom line more important that mine, then they no longer have my loyality. They still make good filters, but I'm not going to go out of my way to get them if they make it a hard game for me to guess what filter I need past their own recommendation.
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Agreed. They're getting a bit silly, especially when they're not posting bulletins referencing why some of these changes have been made. Perhaps I might have to send them a letter, since the email some time ago got a fairly generic response. Them saying it's "better" means very little. Better filtration? Better bypass specification match? Better dirt holding? Better profit for them?
Just thought I'd give this a final update, as another member mentioned in another post, the Wix 57356 now has a Silicone Anti-Drainback Valve (ADBV).
So the differences between the two filters are: White can, much smaller inlet holes, and more of a recessed tapping plate.
If the nitrile one I have on my car gives me startup rattle in a few months I'll change it and top up my oil. I picked up three updated filters from Canton today.
Thanks guys...
So the differences between the two filters are: White can, much smaller inlet holes, and more of a recessed tapping plate.
If the nitrile one I have on my car gives me startup rattle in a few months I'll change it and top up my oil. I picked up three updated filters from Canton today.
Thanks guys...
dnewton3
Staff member
Nice to hear that they are upgrading the ADBV to silicon; I read that post in the other thread as well. Good to know.
But, I still wonder was is "wrong" with the old 51356 in this application? What prompted Wix to back spec the filter change?
I still see zero reason not to use up your garage stock. Although failure is very unlikely, they would have to honor the warranty they sold you with the filter. Suppose you never saw the "updated" filter? Suppose you were just a common Joe (not a BITOGer) and was not aware of the change? What if you got those Wix filters over the counter, and have not been back to the store for two years? Suddenly, your expectation of warranty is voided because Wix changed a recommendation? As of this point, they do not have an official notification in their data (website tech bullentins) as to the offical change, so any former reccomendation should still be honored. Poppycock!
I'd use the old stock up with no reservations whatsoever. Then, use the "new" ones with the silicone ADBV.
Happy motoring.
But, I still wonder was is "wrong" with the old 51356 in this application? What prompted Wix to back spec the filter change?
I still see zero reason not to use up your garage stock. Although failure is very unlikely, they would have to honor the warranty they sold you with the filter. Suppose you never saw the "updated" filter? Suppose you were just a common Joe (not a BITOGer) and was not aware of the change? What if you got those Wix filters over the counter, and have not been back to the store for two years? Suddenly, your expectation of warranty is voided because Wix changed a recommendation? As of this point, they do not have an official notification in their data (website tech bullentins) as to the offical change, so any former reccomendation should still be honored. Poppycock!
I'd use the old stock up with no reservations whatsoever. Then, use the "new" ones with the silicone ADBV.
Happy motoring.
Yes I totally agree dnewton,
When you put the old Wix beside the updated filter it is pretty clear in my mind it is to save 10-20 cents per unit.
The old filter is a gem, and I think they even tried to pull off the Nitrile ADBV but people were on to it too much so they went back to the Silicone in the 57356, so maybe the savings by backspeccing so many vehicles is maybe 13 cents per unit.
Well, I can at least live with the updated filter now so not too big of a deal.
I can't put on the old filter because I have to write it into my records with my bills for warranty purposes. A guy at school is giving me 6$ for it so for the 3 $ difference after taxes what I pay for the new filter at Canton is worth the piece of mind to just sell it.
Thanks guys have a good week...
When you put the old Wix beside the updated filter it is pretty clear in my mind it is to save 10-20 cents per unit.
The old filter is a gem, and I think they even tried to pull off the Nitrile ADBV but people were on to it too much so they went back to the Silicone in the 57356, so maybe the savings by backspeccing so many vehicles is maybe 13 cents per unit.
Well, I can at least live with the updated filter now so not too big of a deal.
I can't put on the old filter because I have to write it into my records with my bills for warranty purposes. A guy at school is giving me 6$ for it so for the 3 $ difference after taxes what I pay for the new filter at Canton is worth the piece of mind to just sell it.
Thanks guys have a good week...
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Suppose you never saw the "updated" filter? Suppose you were just a common Joe (not a BITOGer) and was not aware of the change?
Exactly. If I wasn't a BITOG nut and comparing filter sizes between various brands one night (Wix versus Hastings, I believe it was), I never would have found out that the 51365 was superseded for my G. I don't check the book or the parts counter every time I buy a filter for my F-150, either. It's either an FL1A or a 51515, depending where I go. At least post a bulletin on the darned filter site.
Suppose you never saw the "updated" filter? Suppose you were just a common Joe (not a BITOGer) and was not aware of the change?
Exactly. If I wasn't a BITOG nut and comparing filter sizes between various brands one night (Wix versus Hastings, I believe it was), I never would have found out that the 51365 was superseded for my G. I don't check the book or the parts counter every time I buy a filter for my F-150, either. It's either an FL1A or a 51515, depending where I go. At least post a bulletin on the darned filter site.
Jack-thanks for the references to previous post history--is situation is worse than I originally thought
So , any more information on the change in the last 5 months??
and if I buy a 57356, the current "fresh" ones have what color silicone antidrainback valve-? is the silicone one black or orange?
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