Severe Problems, timing chain?

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So since we got it our Shadow has had hard starting. Basically the starter is shot and pulls too much current. It often backfires when starting, because it has to crank for a while. But it always ran fine, once running. It's a 1985 Honda Shadow VT500C, by the way.

Until today. Annoyingly enough, my MSF course is in the morning. I went to go put gas in it. At the gas station, after jump starting it, I noticed it wouldn't idle. It would idle really slow, and then die. I finally had to have the person who helped me hold the revs up while I got on and wound up the jumper cables. And then driving the mile back to the house, it had zero power. I mean, keeping it from stalling when letting out the clutch required full throttle, and it would jerk forward, like no power, and then suddenly some power. Stopping while holding the revs up so it wouldn't stall, and trying to keep it from stalling when getting moving again.

It's really bad. Stopped by a neighbors house who is a Sheriff and has a motorcycle, and he helped me for a few minutes. He thinks my timing is off, as it doesn't want to run, idle, has no power, and backfires heavily when attempting to start. This would make sense to me, if the timing chain is loose. When it's hot and idling, or revving, it has a rhythmic metallic tapping sound that is about half engine speed, and increases linearly with engine speed.

I'm wondering if the timing has been slightly off, and then slipped a few teeth, which is what is going on now, as it sits in my garage. I mean, it's 27 years old, and has 34,000 miles on it. What do you think? I mean we just had the carbs rebuilt last year, and the spark plugs replaced at the same time.
 
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It's a real possibility. You need a manual to see how you set the cam timing when you do a chain replacement, then you could check to see if the marks line up.
 
My first thought would be a fueling problem since it runs better at higher revs. I would guess that something has plugged up the low-speed jets in your carbs, which is very common in older bikes that have been sitting for awhile. Are you sure you don't have a plugged fuel filter? It could be a lot of things.
 
I agree. Those are the symptoms for all the timing belt or chain problems ive had. Maybe the chain streched a while back creating more draw on the starter and finally the chain jumped and now it really runs bad.
 
I am not familiar with the timing chain set up on your bike, but it is highly likely I think with that age the chain could be loose. If it backfires hard enough for the engine to turn backwards the timing could jump because the chain is normally only tight in the normal direction.
 
More common to have fueling issues. Carb jets plugging or plugged most likely. Was it ever setting for any length with fuel in the carb? Maybe for the off season like many bikes. The ethanol in our gas is not kind to older systems never made for corn liquor. Any rust in the tank?..
 
You know with 34000 miles the cam chain may be ok, it could be way past due for a valve adjustment.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Yeah, seriously, when were the valves adjusted last time on this engine?


No idea, we've only owned it for 2,000 miles. But it didn't run like this before, it was very sudden. Like, today. I suppose maybe the carb is seriously plugged, but that's hard to believe considering we had them overhauled last spring. I'm seriously considering parking it, letting my dad worry about it, and paying cash in the spring/next summer for a Yamaha V-Star 250 or Honda Rebel.
 
What kind of shape is the rest of the bike in? Older bikes can nickel and dime you pretty bad. Starter, fork seals, chain and sprockets, brakes, cables, tires. It all adds up, but on the other hand you can out grow a 250 real quick.
 
Originally Posted By: AVB
What kind of shape is the rest of the bike in? Older bikes can nickel and dime you pretty bad. Starter, fork seals, chain and sprockets, brakes, cables, tires. It all adds up, but on the other hand you can out grow a 250 real quick.


It needs a new starter and starter clutch at least, but other than that it was in good shape.
 
Even if the carbs were cleaned last year if it sat with non-stabilized ethanol gas over a winter it would be very likely to have problems this year, whatever else might be wrong. It only takes a few months for ethanol gas that is not stabilized to go really bad and gum everything up.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Yeah, seriously, when were the valves adjusted last time on this engine?


I'm seriously considering parking it, letting my dad worry about it, and paying cash in the spring/next summer for a Yamaha V-Star 250 or Honda Rebel.


Hey Nick,
You and I don't know each other but I have read many of your posts over the years. When you experience mechanical difficulties you seem to want to bail and buy new.

Why don't you dive into this issue and figure it out? You may learn a little and save a few bucks along the way.

Good luck
 
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Originally Posted By: bigdreama
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Yeah, seriously, when were the valves adjusted last time on this engine?


I'm seriously considering parking it, letting my dad worry about it, and paying cash in the spring/next summer for a Yamaha V-Star 250 or Honda Rebel.


Hey Nick,
You and I don't know each other but I have read many of your posts over the years. When you experience mechanical difficulties you seem to want to bail and buy new.

Why don't you dive into this issue and figure it out? You may learn a little and save a few bucks along the way.

Good luck


The cavalier had a bad oil pump and the bottom end was shot, I wasn't going to completely tear down the engine again, I had already done that. This time, I'm going to try changing the plugs, drain the gas and run a fresh tank heavily loaded with carb cleaner, and if that doesn't work, I'm parking it. It already needs a new starter and starter clutch, and I'm not opening up the bike. My dad can worry about that. Especially not to do something as in depth as potentially a timing chain. Not to mention I can't even ride it any more, since my permit expires on the 8th, and I was SUPPOSED to get my MSF certificate tomorrow so I could get my license, and since I couldn't take the class because it wouldn't idle or start without jumping or push starting, I was kicked and told to sign up again for the next class.
 
Besides I've decided that I want a Triumph bike. Parallel Twin, and great Styling. I want the bonneville.

Triumph_Bonneville-x_2008_02_1024x768.jpg
 
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And me a Speed Triple. Actually the newer Speed Triples are pretty ugly, but the new Daytonas are sharp.
 
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Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: bigdreama
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Yeah, seriously, when were the valves adjusted last time on this engine?


I'm seriously considering parking it, letting my dad worry about it, and paying cash in the spring/next summer for a Yamaha V-Star 250 or Honda Rebel.


Hey Nick,
You and I don't know each other but I have read many of your posts over the years. When you experience mechanical difficulties you seem to want to bail and buy new.

Why don't you dive into this issue and figure it out? You may learn a little and save a few bucks along the way.

Good luck


The cavalier had a bad oil pump and the bottom end was shot, I wasn't going to completely tear down the engine again, I had already done that. This time, I'm going to try changing the plugs, drain the gas and run a fresh tank heavily loaded with carb cleaner, and if that doesn't work, I'm parking it. It already needs a new starter and starter clutch, and I'm not opening up the bike. My dad can worry about that. Especially not to do something as in depth as potentially a timing chain. Not to mention I can't even ride it any more, since my permit expires on the 8th, and I was SUPPOSED to get my MSF certificate tomorrow so I could get my license, and since I couldn't take the class because it wouldn't idle or start without jumping or push starting, I was kicked and told to sign up again for the next class.


Why change the plugs? Doesn't sound like an ignition problem.

Sounds like either fuel or a SIGNIFICANT timing problem.

What is your fear of tearing into it based on? Bikes, in my experience, I pretty bloody easy to work on.
 
I'd go through the fuel system, maybe check the valves if it's been a good while.
Man I used to hate doing the valves on the wife's first bike (Honda Shadow Aero)- It needed it on the first check, but after that it was checks only as the adjustment held well. Still, just getting in/out of there they could have made it easier.
 
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Well, today I changed the spark plugs with new NGK ones, drained the tank and filled it with fresh 93 octane, and an entire bottle of Techron (the one for 12 gallon tanks) and guess what? It runs perfectly now. I think the guy I talked to was right, I didn't winterize it properly (didn't use the marine StaBil) and the carbs were gummed up. Well I'm still shooting to buy a Bonneville next year sometime, so I'm still going to do that. But it's nice to have something to ride in the meantime.
 
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