Evans Waterless Coolant
- Thread starter Rodmiser
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Looks like interesting stuff, but I'd like to see more information as to its physical characteristics. Things like specific heat, for instance. The specific heat of water is about twice that of ethylene glycol. Meaning water can absorb twice the heat of ethylene glycol per degree rise in coolant temp. Of course, in a mixture of water/glycol, the difference is not as great.
Glycols are quite a bit more viscous than water. So there'd be more stress on the water pump and a minor hit on fuel economy.
As organic compounds, glycols are also subject to thermal degradation. Although data on how much at normal engine operating temps is not easily available.
If this stuff were as great as it's made out to be, you'd think one of the luxury brands would be using it and advertising their lifetime coolant.
Glycols are quite a bit more viscous than water. So there'd be more stress on the water pump and a minor hit on fuel economy.
As organic compounds, glycols are also subject to thermal degradation. Although data on how much at normal engine operating temps is not easily available.
If this stuff were as great as it's made out to be, you'd think one of the luxury brands would be using it and advertising their lifetime coolant.
Originally Posted By: Rodmiser
Is this worth the time.
There isn't much hard data on the make-up of this stuff, but they say it's "inhibited 100% propylene glycol".
The heat transfer properties of propylene glycol are inferior to those of ethylene glyclol, which are in turn inferior to those of water.
In short, this stuff should increase the actual engine temperature, which is why OEMs recommend a 50/50 mix of ethylene glycol and water.
Is this worth the time.
There isn't much hard data on the make-up of this stuff, but they say it's "inhibited 100% propylene glycol".
The heat transfer properties of propylene glycol are inferior to those of ethylene glyclol, which are in turn inferior to those of water.
In short, this stuff should increase the actual engine temperature, which is why OEMs recommend a 50/50 mix of ethylene glycol and water.
JHZR2
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there was a guy on the MB boards that used this in his car. The benefit, as I recall, was that it ran at zero presure. Good for old vehicles.
I have no first hand experience with the stuff, but I know Darton recommends it for engines that get their cylinder sleeves. It would be interesting to be able to run back to back tests on an open track car running straight water and then running Evans to see if there are any differences.
Yes, one is supposed to run this product at the lowest pressure possible.
I beleive that they suggest a 5-7lb. cap MAX.
I am running their water pump on my LS1, and would have used their coolant except that the best you can do with freeze protection is about -10*F with even the most 'streetable' of their products.
(And yes, before someone asks how often it gets that cold in my area, I will say that I don't want to be replacing the long block the one freak time it does!!
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I beleive that they suggest a 5-7lb. cap MAX.
I am running their water pump on my LS1, and would have used their coolant except that the best you can do with freeze protection is about -10*F with even the most 'streetable' of their products.
(And yes, before someone asks how often it gets that cold in my area, I will say that I don't want to be replacing the long block the one freak time it does!!
I like to experiment so I used it on an 85 Dodge Caravan 2.6 many years ago.
You have to get all the water out of your engine before installing it. Fortunately, my engine had a drain plug.
I don't think I would try it again because if your hoses develop a leak (a problem on old vehicles), you probably won't have any on hand to replace it with. I can't afford to risk trying it on an expensive vehicle. Also, some vehicles might need some modifications to use it. I just dumped it in, though.
I do miss some of the benefits: No pressure on hoses and PG is safe(r) for the engine if it gets into the oil. I am puzzled why some manufacturer of expensive cars hasn't tried it.
You have to get all the water out of your engine before installing it. Fortunately, my engine had a drain plug.
I don't think I would try it again because if your hoses develop a leak (a problem on old vehicles), you probably won't have any on hand to replace it with. I can't afford to risk trying it on an expensive vehicle. Also, some vehicles might need some modifications to use it. I just dumped it in, though.
I do miss some of the benefits: No pressure on hoses and PG is safe(r) for the engine if it gets into the oil. I am puzzled why some manufacturer of expensive cars hasn't tried it.
Manufacturers choices are governed by the dollar.
I'd bet it's a price thing.
In volume production cars they will shave off a quarter if they can think of a way!
I'd bet it's a price thing.
In volume production cars they will shave off a quarter if they can think of a way!
I would consider it in a newly rebuilt engine. Almost used it in my B2 but decided to go in a different direction.
Originally Posted By: Rodmiser
They say its good to -38 F
This must be a fairly new version, as back when I went to their pump (~2006/7) and was asking about their coolant, the low point was NOT that low.
They say its good to -38 F
This must be a fairly new version, as back when I went to their pump (~2006/7) and was asking about their coolant, the low point was NOT that low.
My memory is fading about my experience with it many years ago, but I seem to remember ordering a version of the Evans coolant that wouldn't gel in the cold temperatures in my winters, which can dip to 30 below. I never had it gel on me, though.
I have heard that pure ethylene glycol will gel at those temperatures and allow your engine to cook itself even at 30 below.
I have heard that pure ethylene glycol will gel at those temperatures and allow your engine to cook itself even at 30 below.
I have one friend who uses it. He credits it for saving one engine when a part of the radiator corroded away (road salt) much worse than he realized. The low operating pressure prevented a massive coolant loss and allowed enough warning (smell of hot coolant leaking slowly) so that he was never stranded.
That said, all the vehicles he's used it in have been operated no further south than Detroit. I think for it to work in Texas or Arizona you'd have to have a cooling system with a lot of margin in radiator size and efficiency.
He's had no problems with gelling causing overheating due to lack of circulation as far as I know.
That said, all the vehicles he's used it in have been operated no further south than Detroit. I think for it to work in Texas or Arizona you'd have to have a cooling system with a lot of margin in radiator size and efficiency.
He's had no problems with gelling causing overheating due to lack of circulation as far as I know.
I actually DO have experience with Evans NPG+. When I did my installations, they did not sell a prep product to dehydrate the system prior to use. I have it in two machines, one a small farm tractor that we work really hard and which has a small cooling system; the other is a GL1800 Honda Goldwing which also has a challenged cooling system. Is it worth it in an automobile? Very doubtful. It will work great, it is permanent, it does not corrode, it does not freeze, and within any practical sense it will no boil over. But most folks simply don't keep their cars long enough to experience cooling system failures. If you change coolant on schedule, you can wear the car out on regular e-glycol and water mix with no problems. ALso, getting the vehicle prepped for Evans is a royal PIA. Drain, flush with addititve to remove any corrosion or scale. Fluch that away, and then dehydrate the system with full strength propolene glycol coolant (such as Sierra) or their prep product once or TWICE $$$. You want the system to be very dry, like a good martini.
But for me, the tractor is still working like new since 1982. The Goldwing has over 100,000 miles (over 80,000 on Evans) and on a very busy stop and go warm day it went to the top of Mt Washington while many cars and cycles were on the roadside puking coolant. Several other such rides. If you worry about radiator hoses or clamps, the Evans can be run without a pressure cap and thus little challenge to leak prone joints or wear and tear on hoses. It is best applied to special situations.
prs
But for me, the tractor is still working like new since 1982. The Goldwing has over 100,000 miles (over 80,000 on Evans) and on a very busy stop and go warm day it went to the top of Mt Washington while many cars and cycles were on the roadside puking coolant. Several other such rides. If you worry about radiator hoses or clamps, the Evans can be run without a pressure cap and thus little challenge to leak prone joints or wear and tear on hoses. It is best applied to special situations.
prs
I recall from the bottles that the new NPG+ is good to -45...it gets "a little slushy" at -35. I use it in my Coupe de Ville...it is the ONLY thing that lets a mostly-stock cooling system cool my big stroker! Sitting with the A/C on in traffic and 85MPH highway runs on 95+ degree heat did not faze it.
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With the auto makers now scrambling to get more fuel mileage but still keep power levels up, I am surprised that some auto makers aren't interested in this coolant. Ford's new 3 cylinder Ecoboost engine which comes out soon uses direct injection into the combustion chambers, turbocharging, an offset crankshaft, and many other innovations to achieve those goals. You can see a good video on the EcoBoost 3 cylinder on YouTube.
I would think that this coolant would speed warmup and help to more evenly cool the engine, prevent hot spots, and increase temperatures on the bottom of the cylinders, which should burn the fuel better.
I would think that this coolant would speed warmup and help to more evenly cool the engine, prevent hot spots, and increase temperatures on the bottom of the cylinders, which should burn the fuel better.
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