Best approach to engine cleaning

[Oregoonian]

Originally Posted By: JavierG
Try PYB with some MMO.


That is my thought as well.....with a short OCI of 2500. Do this about 3 times....and it should clean most of that sludge. Use a cheaper filter....like a Purolator (white can) and change out each oil change.

After that....use a good synthetix like M1, or PP...and extend the OCI....with a good mid-tier filter (PureOne, WIX, Napa Gold).

 

[Zaedock]

Risk from AutoRX?

I've found it to be an excellent product that worked for me as advertised.

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: dparm
I'd just run a quality synthetic through there for a few OCIs. Their cleaning power will be slow but safe.

Some like the AutoRX route with a cheap dino oil for 500-1000 miles but I'm not willing to take that risk.


You are absolutely spot on. I would not use AutoRX.

Read the link from an Amsoil site it gives an idea of whats involved as debris is removed from engine components. I would not use an engine flush.

It been said before in other threads it can take upto 3 full OCI's before the engine cleanup is achieved pending the original status of the engine.

http://www.pecuniary.com/faq/high-mileage.html

I would change the oil filter at every 1200 miles, that's my recommendation. Then full oil and filter change at 3000 miles.

Then repeat this process for another cycle of 3000 miles.

Today's oils have superior cleaning than those in the past IMO and the need for additives should be left right until the end, to see if the are required at all.

Proper engine maintenance ie spark plugs, leads, air filter, PCV valve, fuel filter, correct fuel grade, exhaust system is good order etc are just as important, if engine clean up is to be successful.

I would select a group 3 oil with the OEM, ACEA and API approvals etc that is within the recommendations (ie grade, viscosity) and operating and climate conditions of the users manual.

 

[ltslimjim]

Heck, I go by miles/time not how many oil changes performed, just saying. A moderately 'gunked' engine may take a good 20,000+ to change from 'ew' to 'alright, not perfect but much much better'...you know? Yes, type of cleansing to be done is a huge factor. If possible, it's best to remove a valve cover and go to town on the valve train area. If it's not terrible, only moderate deposits/varnish etc, not caked on sludge formed anywhere, you are probably safe on the bottom end. If it's at the point of sludge, I'd clean the top/remove the oil pan and do both before using chemicals. If possible...if not go the slow route.

T6, any full synthetic...basic filters, perhaps cutting one or two open to compare initial cleansing efforts to a few oil changes later for debris/gunk caught in the filter media itself.

PYB + MMO is solid for basic carbon deposits, some coked on varnish, etc. ...but I wait to jump on solvents until I've gotten things rolling so it liquidates easier and hardened pieces can be softened initially with proper maintenance/initially moderate - mild attempts at cleaning before going solvent route(leading to Kreen in some cases etc).

Most are spot on, there are several routes to take...

So, the biggest question right now is what is the condition of the engine?

PS: Change your PCV valve!

 

[magnus308]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Good info, but I disagree the 5 cylinder turbo motor is known for sludging up. Any motor will if dino oil is run long enough without a change & filter, particularly in a hot climate like LA


I can only agree with you regarding the sludge and the 5-Cyl whiteblocks, To get sludge in those is very difficult if they are maintained as they should with a full synth oil.
Since i live in the Volvo country Nr.1 i have looked at more Volvo oilcaps than i can remember and if they are dealer serviced sludge and buildup is very uncommon.
The only cars with sludge i have seen is when some bozo have used a dino 10-30 or 10-40 in the whiteblock Turbo which is a big NO NO!
If a Dino oil have been used in those Turbo engines the PCV system will be clogged up very fast and sludge is very soon a fact.

I just went to my garage and took a pic of my oilcap and service history, The car have today 88856 Miles. and is a S60 2,5 Turbo 2005
1st service interval 31 745 kilometer = 19725 miles
2st Service interval 29 609 kilometer = 18398 miles
3st Service interval 28 428 kilometer = 17664 miles

Only Castrol Edge 0W30 A5/B5 have been used since the car was new
and its the only approved oil for the 2005- whiteblocks here in Sweden.
My last oilchange i did myself with Redline.

I had a very limited amount of paper to wipe off the oil
from the oilfiller hole so the yellow on the pic is only oil and not varnish.

If your whiteblock is already sludged up the first step is to check the PCV system and its quite easy to do, Let the engine be on idle and then remove the dipstick and put a balloon on the dipstick hole.
The pressure should be negative so if you get the baloon filled with air then the PCV system is clogged up and need to be cleaned, There is not to just replace a PCV Valve on those engines its a quite big teardown process with removing the intake manifold and everything else and this is the second reason to never run anything else than a full synth in those engines, There is also a PYC nipple that is very good to clean at the same time near the turbo.

 

[magnus308]

Originally Posted By: magnus308

There is also a PYC nipple that is very good to clean at the same time near the turbo.


I hit the wrong letter on my keyboard, It should be PTC nipple and not PYC.

 

[Boss302fan]

If I knew for sure that I had sludge, then my choice would be PP with a small dosage of Kreen. You could also try PYB...

Ultra would work but I hate adding anything to an already expensive syn oil...

 

[wiswind]

First, I am NOT familiar with the Volvo engines and I am NOT a mechanic.....so I am just giving an opinion that is based upon my reading and limited experience.

Magnus308 mentions using ONLY a quality synthetic.
I was thinking this as I was reading the various answers....why use a "cheap" oil to save a couple bucks?

My other question...What oil has been used in this vehicle and for what Oil Change Interval (OCI)?
What are the driving conditions?....specifically, does this vehicle see a lot of "short trip" driving?
How long does it take to put 5K miles on it?

As has already been mentioned, the PCV system is absolutely CRITICAL to maintaining the health of most any gasoline automotive engine.
A clogged or restricted PCV flow is one of the fastest ways to develop sludge.

Cutting open your oil filters (you can buy a oil filter cutting tool online) to see how much they are loading up may help.
If you load up the filter media, then you will be in bypass mode more often, which gets you no filtration.

As for AutoRX, I use it in a "maintenance dose" in my oil (Redline) and have not done the clean/rinse cycle.
My thoughts are to boost the cleaning power of the oil.
I read this in a old post by one of the members here who knows a LOT about oil.
I did not have a sludged up engine to start with.

Depending upon how easy it is to remove valve covers and/or oil pan, these are 2 places that checking and cleaning may be of help to the process.
The key point being to use a high quality oil and stick with that.

 

[magnus308]

Originally Posted By: wiswind

Magnus308 mentions using ONLY a quality synthetic.
I was thinking this as I was reading the various answers....why use a "cheap" oil to save a couple bucks?

As has already been mentioned, the PCV system is absolutely CRITICAL to maintaining the health of most any gasoline automotive engine.
A clogged or restricted PCV flow is one of the fastest ways to develop sludge.

Cutting open your oil filters (you can buy a oil filter cutting tool online) to see how much they are loading up may help.
If you load up the filter media, then you will be in bypass mode more often, which gets you no filtration.

Depending upon how easy it is to remove valve covers and/or oil pan, these are 2 places that checking and cleaning may be of help to the process.
The key point being to use a high quality oil and stick with that.


Just some comments

1. You are correct about the synthetic, Its expensive to use a cheap Dino in those turbo engines if you want keep the car for long.
2. It can be more than 4 hours work for a skilled mechanic to completely clean the PCV and replace the oiltrap etc on a newer whiteblock
3. The oilpan can be removed but there is no way to lift any "valve cover" since it does not exist in the same way as on other engines,
making it even worse to clean out any sludge from a whiteblock. The two aluminium halves that holds the camshafts and everything else must be split.
4. The oilfilter is a paperfilter without any metal container so contaminations are very easy to see while replacing it.
5. When the sludge is already there its totally useless to use any HDEO or any oilflush in the engine if not the PCV
system works properly, So check and fix the PCV first. While cleaning the block attachments for the oiltrap it can easily fall down
contamination, sludge and other things in the oil pan so the oilchange can be done after a complete PCV repair. If a PCV overhaul is necessary in this case.
6. The PCV on Turbo whiteblocks are very sensitive for clogging with low quality oil and creates a mess in both the engine and wallet...

I do my best to share my experience with Volvo cars and any input on something i wrote incorrect is very welcome..

 

[sleddriver]

I noticed you live in Sweden. Very different conditions there than in LA or here in Central Texas. Is your region primarily cold & damp? Perhaps whiteblocks there don't get hot enough long enough.

Good info re: PCV system. When I serviced mine & the PTC, no ports were clogged. However, the vac lines underneath the intake manifold were cracked & very brittle due to the heat. Yours & the OP's PCV systems are different from my own however.

 

[Gebo]

I use AutoRx in every car I purchase. This is the first thing I do is change oil and us AutoRx. I don't use it after that, just in my first initial engine cleanup. To add to this, I have personally seen it stop leaks on 2 cars that park in my driveway without any other work done. I know it does something. I believe it is safer. I believe it works.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Gebo
I use AutoRx in every car I purchase. This is the first thing I do is change oil and us AutoRx. I don't use it after that, just in my first initial engine cleanup. To add to this, I have personally seen it stop leaks on 2 cars that park in my driveway without any other work done. I know it does something. I believe it is safer. I believe it works.

Interesting. I would like to try this stuff however seafoam has done all of my vehicles. Don't really need to clean them again.
I just did my old lady's Chrysler minivan. 250000 kms. Poorly maintained. I ran a full can of seafoam in some super-tech oil for 2500 kms. That oil came out thin and super black. I had a look in the oil fill and it was noticeably cleaner. Will likely do it again on the next oil change interval. I just put in mobil 1 afe so I don't want to affect my fuel economy testing by adding anything. Maybe at 5000 kms I will seafoam again for 1000 kms.
Auto-rx may be great stuff but from my experience seafoam has done a great job for me. And it's easy to find. And it's cheap. Your results may vary

 

[wiswind]

Magnus308,
From what you say about the PCV system being sensitive to clogging, would it not seem likely to be an issue in this situation where there is known to be a sludge issue?
It sounds like this would be 4 hours shop time WELL invested as no cleaning elsewhere is not going to do much good if the cause is not corrected.

The oil filter sounds like what we call a "cartridge" filter over here.....becoming more and more common on newer vehicles.
So it will be easy to inspect....at least we have something that will be easy.

One oil, if cost is not an issue, would be Redline, which has a Polo-ester base stock.
If this oil is chosen, take a look at the HTHS value as Redline oil tends to run 1 grade up....in other words, their 5W-30 oil has a HTHS of 3.8 and their 0W-30 has an HTHS of 3.2
Redline is similar to Motul, which may be more popular in Europe.
Redline is based in CA, where the OP is, and they have a great reputation for being VERY responsive and helpful.
They have a tab on their website where you can ask questions....include your vehicle information and how it is driven in your request.

 

[iunderpressure]

I have a 850 turbo. I have always thought i could have a clogged pcv system, but the volvo shop i take the car to says its fine and clean. They check it so quick and don't charge much to do it, so I'm not so sure what they are really checking. I thought you would have to maybe take the intake manifold off, and there would be more to it. I think it could be clogged because when I take the dip stick out it has some vapor coming out of the dipstick tube. Another side note, I get some milky/light rust build up on top of the dipstick. I'm not sure if it's from a bad gasket on top of the dipstick or from being pushed up from the engine. It's not mixed with the oil. I know i have not coolent getting in the oil. It's not any of that. The first time I saw it, my stomach fell. Is there anyway I can test the pcv system?

 

[shpankey]

If it were me I'd run Pennzoil Ultra for 2900 miles then add MMO for 100 miles then change the oil & filter, & drop the pan, cleaning & check & clean the oil pickup screen. Then just run Penn Ultra for a couple more 3k mile intervals before extending it back out. But I've lost a motor from cleaning too much too fast thereby clogging the pickup, so I'm much more conservative now.

 

[iunderpressure]

Originally Posted By: shpankey
If it were me I'd run Pennzoil Ultra for 2900 miles then add MMO for 100 miles then change the oil & filter, & drop the pan, cleaning & check & clean the oil pickup screen. Then just run Penn Ultra for a couple more 3k mile intervals before extending it back out. But I've lost a motor from cleaning too much too fast thereby clogging the pickup, so I'm much more conservative now.


What did u use to clean too fast?

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: shpankey
If it were me I'd run Pennzoil Ultra for 2900 miles then add MMO for 100 miles then change the oil & filter, & drop the pan, cleaning & check & clean the oil pickup screen. Then just run Penn Ultra for a couple more 3k mile intervals before extending it back out. But I've lost a motor from cleaning too much too fast thereby clogging the pickup, so I'm much more conservative now.
Mmo for 100 miles won't do anything but burn your money. If I have learned 1 thing about that stuff here is it works slow. Like seafoam. Dissolving slowly over time.
You must have used some kind of engine flush to get chunks clog the pick up screen.

 

[demarpaint]

^^ You hit the nail on the head.^^ 100 miles with MMO will do little to no cleaning at all. It takes way more than 100 miles for it to do anything.

 

[91344George]

Again the best way to clean is slowly with a quality High Detergent Oil (HDEO) like Shell Rotella. I'd go with two or three OCIs with this and then switch back to a regular oil.

 

[xcinla]

I got a ecm code indicating a camshaft valve was faulty. both a independant volvo specialist and factory tech said that sludge was the issue. That was before I told them I ran some seafoam for 1,500 miles in my engine.... hehe

The ECM light cleared on 2 occasions but came back so I'm assuming that there is either varnish or some chunks in the block that is causing the valve issue.