Odyssey transmission failure?

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
The used GM vans sell for less than used Honda vans because GM vans often get failed intake manifold gaskets or cylinder head gaskets, unlike the Honda van.

Also, the Honda van interiors hold up better than either a GM or Chrysler van.


I'm not comparing to a GM van, but the Dodge vans primarily. What parts of the interiors hold up better? I mean, the seats in this thing aren't great, and the interior has typical van wear and tear. No better and no worse than any Carvans of the same vintage I've been in.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: artificialist
The used GM vans sell for less than used Honda vans because GM vans often get failed intake manifold gaskets or cylinder head gaskets, unlike the Honda van.

Also, the Honda van interiors hold up better than either a GM or Chrysler van.


I'm not comparing to a GM van, but the Dodge vans primarily. What parts of the interiors hold up better? I mean, the seats in this thing aren't great, and the interior has typical van wear and tear. No better and no worse than any Carvans of the same vintage I've been in.

The dashboards tend not to warp as easily, the buttons on the controls are less likely to fall off, and the A/C usually doesn't have something fail that is buried underneath the dashboard.

 

[thrace]

Quote:
The 2004+ transmissions are more durable than the 2003- units. The 2003- units had five forward speeds running off just two shafts. The 2004+ transmissions use three shafts, and the newer ones even use four shafts I believe. These are not planetary-gear transmissions like many automatics; they're built internally very much like manual transmissions.

1999-2001 Odyssey of the OP had a 4 speed AT.
The 2002-2006 Odyssey had a 5 speed, 3 shaft transmission. Check parts diagrams at Honda dealers' parts web sites or Honda estore and you can count the number of shafts. The 2007 Odyssey changed to 5 speed 4 shaft design but Consumer Reports reports much worse than average frequency of repair in the categories transmission major and transmission minor for 2007. Also Consumer Reports shows poor frequency of repair for several years of the 2nd generation models between 1999 and 2003 confirming what many owners know. That many Odysseys have lots of transmission problems. These Honda transmissions are not planetary geared but do have circular clutches like most other brand automatics.

 

[thrace]

Quote:
The Odyssey transmission are way better than Dodge Caravan's that's for sure...
Not sure at all. My 2002 Honda Odyssey transmission broke early but most of my other cars never did including Chrysler. Changed with Z1 exclusively about 10000 miles or less and still croaked.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: thrace
The 2007 Odyssey changed to 5 speed 4 shaft design but Consumer Reports reports much worse than average frequency of repair in the categories transmission major and transmission minor for 2007.


They did, and I'm not sure what to make of that Poor blip on the CR chart. The prior model year, 2006, got a fill closed red circle for transmission major, meaning lowest trouble frequency (and 2005 got a half red circle). And 2008 through 2010 are either half red or full red, again meaning low trouble frequency.

Something's up with the 2007 model year, and I'm not sure what to make of it.

 

[Virtuoso]

Lies, [censored] lies, and statistics!

 

[Vikas]

Get Gator or Jasper rebuilt transmission. If you shop around, it will be slightly over 2K installed. If the rest of the van is in pristine condition, go for it.

 

[OVERKILL]

Update:

I have the van

Borrowing it until Monday, when the new fuel filter comes in for the M5. I think it is plugged.

Just drove it home.

Tomorrow I will check the oil, ATF....etc.

BTW, my MIL remembered the mileage incorrectly. It has 216,000Km (134,216 miles) on it; less than our Expedition.

The sliding doors are sticking shut, the CEL is on, it has random surges of power and the tranny shifting is sketchy. I'm sure I'll find all kinds of wonderful things tomorrow

 

[OVERKILL]

OK, washed, vacuumed (haven't waxed it yet), it was neglected.

Checked the oil. Right up. No issues there. Though there was some heavy sludge under the fill cap (on the cap itself). The engine, from what I could see, looked clean inside however, with only a light coating of varnish on everything.

Checked the ATF. Uh oh. Wiping the dipstick, and the dark, burnt smelling ATF left a nice metal film on the paper towel I was using. Sampled again. Same thing. So there is enough metal in the ATF that it shows up quite prominently when just checking it. Not good.

Thinking of doing a drain/fill on it to see if it helps. I've got a whopping 1L of Mobil 1 ATF here however..... Problematic.

How much does this thing hold? I assume it is filled through the big plug on the top? Is there a drain plug underneath? I haven't popped under to check.

Thinking maybe she'll get a some more time out of it if we get that metal out of there......

 

[Chris142]

If theres metal in it then it's done. Replacing fluid wont replace damaged steel parts.

I'd get the used trans if it comes with some sort of guarantee, flush the trans cooler and lines, install the new trans and trade that pile in asap.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
If theres metal in it then it's done. Replacing fluid wont replace damaged steel parts.

I'd get the used trans if it comes with some sort of guarantee, flush the trans cooler and lines, install the new trans and trade that pile in asap.


Yes, I explained that to them today.

However, I did a "frankenblend" of various ATF's I found kicking around my parent's other house, so it now has 3L (the drain/fill capacity) of M1 ATF/Maxlife/Canadian Tire Dex III.

Surprisingly.... The shifting improved.

So got my MIL to get 6L of Mobil Super semi-syn ATF suitable for the Honda application (the cheapest we could find at Canadian Tire). Figure I'll do two more drain/fills tomorrow to try and get the rest of the metal out of it.

I explained to her the significance of the substantial amount of metal in the fluid. That there is significant mechanical damage that has taken place inside the transmission and swapping out the fluid will hopefully let it live a little longer. But that they should be off-loading it ASAP, as it WILL fail completely.

BTW, this fluid was a SLURRY of metal and burnt fluid. It was like a grey pasty goo. There was a good 1/8th inch of metal grease-like ATF accumulation on the drain plug.

Talking to MIL2, she told me a slightly different story than my MIL. That Honda wanted 2400 for a new trans, and a used one was going to be $1400. They were told (by the Honda dealer who maintains it.... and I feel like I'm using that term loosely here) that it was going to die and to just drive it until it did. Lovely.

Anyway, the trans isn't the only issue with this van. the HVAC controls only work on HIGH, and MED-HIGH. There is rust in an alarming number of locations. The plate that the fuel door release mounts to... under the carpet? yeah it is a rust nugget. The hood release requires manual intervention to return, even after I lubed the heck out of it. I think the cable is FUBAR. The knob for the rear HVAC is split, the one vent direction slider is broken and hanging back inside the vent. It appears that you can't just grab the vent and pull the whole thing out like you can on a Ford to fix it. So I haven't bothered trying.

The cruise control buttons no longer illuminate, the sliding doors stick shut and God only knows what the CEL is on for. It also needs an alignment (badly) and brakes.

It needs to go.

 

[OVERKILL]

And for those who want to see what the fluid looks like:

Beautiful eh? LOL!

 

[sciphi]

Stick a fork in it. It's done.

With all those issues, it's not long for this world. Trade it in before it dies completely.

 

[The Critic]

Sounds like the van was never taken care of properly. Get rid of it...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Sounds like the van was never taken care of properly. Get rid of it...


But it was dealer maintained!

(seriously)

It has been well used, but then so have both our Expeditions (2000, 2002) and neither have had these kinds of issues. And both of them have more mileage on them than this van.

Is that a fair comparison? I don't know. But back at the time these vehicles were new, I'm sure van's and SUV's were frequently cross-shopped.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Sounds like the van was never taken care of properly. Get rid of it...


But it was dealer maintained!

(seriously)

It has been well used, but then so have both our Expeditions (2000, 2002) and neither have had these kinds of issues. And both of them have more mileage on them than this van.


Dealer maintained. How so? I've seen and worked on cars that were "dealer maintained" all that the owner ever bought was oil changes.

Also, sometimes cars wear out and fail because they were not used in the duty they were designed for. Did they use the Odyssey like a truck? If so, they probably needed to buy a truck-- and not an Odyssey!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Sounds like the van was never taken care of properly. Get rid of it...


But it was dealer maintained!

(seriously)

It has been well used, but then so have both our Expeditions (2000, 2002) and neither have had these kinds of issues. And both of them have more mileage on them than this van.


Dealer maintained. How so? I've seen and worked on cars that were "dealer maintained" all that the owner ever bought was oil changes.

Also, sometimes cars wear out and fail because they were not used in the duty they were designed for. Did they use the Odyssey like a truck? If so, they probably needed to buy a truck-- and not an Odyssey!


When the dealer suggested a service, that service was done. They are not a couple that "abuses" their vehicles in the sense that they neglect it (though I would say this vehicle was abused by the dealer). But they do use them to their full extent, meaning that the van was used to take small loads of wood to their trailer, and was used a few times to tow their old popup tent trailer to their site. Which is not far away (like 1Km).

The Odyssey replaced a CR-V, which they didn't have any issues with. That is why they bought another Honda. They recently bought a Focus.... because of the issues that they've had with the Odyssey. The Focus replaced a Cavalier, the Odyssey will likely be replaced by another Focus.

The Accord and Odyssey have a horrible history of transmission failures. The failure of the transmission happened because it is a 2001 Odyssey, not because of how they used it. It was going to happen, regardless. I imagine the only reason it lasted as long as it did was because of how gently they drive it. Others have gone through several transmissions at this mileage.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: thrace
Quote:
The 2004+ transmissions are more durable than the 2003- units. The 2003- units had five forward speeds running off just two shafts. The 2004+ transmissions use three shafts, and the newer ones even use four shafts I believe. These are not planetary-gear transmissions like many automatics; they're built internally very much like manual transmissions.

1999-2001 Odyssey of the OP had a 4 speed AT.
The 2002-2006 Odyssey had a 5 speed, 3 shaft transmission. Check parts diagrams at Honda dealers' parts web sites or Honda estore and you can count the number of shafts. The 2007 Odyssey changed to 5 speed 4 shaft design but Consumer Reports reports much worse than average frequency of repair in the categories transmission major and transmission minor for 2007. Also Consumer Reports shows poor frequency of repair for several years of the 2nd generation models between 1999 and 2003 confirming what many owners know. That many Odysseys have lots of transmission problems. These Honda transmissions are not planetary geared but do have circular clutches like most other brand automatics.



I think maybe the 4 shaft tranny could be a better design, but I'm not sure just because the 2005-2006 had a 3 shaft they are failure prone. I'm approaching 100K on Amsoil ATF in our 2006 Ody with zero problems and apparently the failure rate of the 2006 seems pretty low.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

The Accord and Odyssey have a horrible history of transmission failures.


So does the Civic, actually.

 

[mystere]

The Honda Odyssey was built on a Honda Accord chassis. It was not designed to pull a light trailer back in that year. Considering the number of miles on it, the van has done well. For those who have the same year model van with not as many miles yet, I would suggest changing the transmission oil sooner than recommended. The picture of the fluid makes me wonder if the metals used for the gears, bearings and shafts were too soft.