Moly/Boron?

[Stelth]

In perusing the PQIA website, as well as VOA's and UOA's here, I've noticed extreme variations in the amount of these two additives. Some oils have a little of both, some have more of both, some have none, some have one or the other.

Do moly and boron have similar functions? Also, what would be considered a "significant" amount of either? According to the PQIA, Chevron Supreme SN has 175 of moly, and 109 of boron. I'm under the impression that that's a pretty good amount of moly for an SN oil.

OTOH, I see some oils with piddly little amounts of either like 30 or 40 ppm of moly, or even something like 9 ppm.

In the SM oils, QS had 51 of moly and 246 of boron, which I thought was pretty spiffy. Shell sort of had the reverse, with 226 and 74 respectively, which would make the moly lovers happy, I think.

Anyway, I'm just trying to understand the functions of these two additives, whether they're synergistic, and whether there's a threshold in ppm when they become beneficial.

 

[Torrid]

Not sure about boron, but I'm assuming the function is similar to moly. Personally on Moly if the number is around 100ppm I'm pretty well satisfied. If it has more, especially 200-300ppm I'd say that is awesome especially if it has maximum allowed ZDDP. There may be something to boron though as you are referring to QS's numbers. I've seen a lot of very good UOAs out of their oils and I've got to say I'm rather impressed. My only gripe is that they make it darn near impossible to find anything heavier than a 30wt in synthetic.

 

[KCJeep]

I think we are also starting to see titanium as a substitute or alternative to moly as well.

 

[Torrid]

Now if we could get both Ti and Moly in an oil instead of a substitute, that would be a seriously stout oil.

 

[volk06]

Kendall GT-1 with LT has boron, moly and titanium ~ 200ppm borob 50 ppm moly and 100ppm titanium from the uoa and voas that I have seen.

 

[walk23]

Any one with a UOA on the Kendall GT-1 ?

 

[Torrid]

I've tried to find Kendall here. All the listed outlets don't carry it. I saw the sign the other day at a distribution point. I'll have to swing by there and see who they supply because I've been curious to try it.

 

[A_Harman]

I just checked over in the VOA section. Titanium analyzed at 60ppm in the Kendall.

 

[Patman]

Moly is used in motor oil for it's anti wear properties, while boron is used mainly for it's ability to keep engine's clean (although I do believe it also has some anti wear properties too)

 

[someguy]

This is interesting and I would also like to know more about this topic. Are certain variations of moly and boron better for new engines over older or certain engine types?

edit: I just found this listing on boron http://papers.sae.org/2004-01-1888/ Abstract

To investigate the effect of removing phosphorus lubricant additives from engine oil, a mileage accumulation programme was run using four 1.6 litre gasoline vehicles, two of which used phosphorus based lubricant oil additives, and the other two used boron based lubricant oil additives. The work showed that the catalyst systems deactivate during mileage accumulation, but emissions were still within the European Stage IV legislative limits at the completion of the mileage accumulation programme. Vehicles run with the boron oil show lower tailpipe emissions than the vehicles run with the phosphorus oil.

 

[Torrid]

Then as long as it is effective for wear I'm all for it. I have a lot of oil knowledge to unlearn including use of ZDDP additives.