Why NOT to buy a Jetta TDI ?

[dparm]

Making the leap to German cars is something you need to be prepared for, irregardless of whether or not it's a diesel. The cars are more fickle, have more expensive parts, and are not the same to work on as Japanese or American.

But with that comes upscale materials and the whole "premium" thing someone else mentioned.

Think about this component of the purchase long and hard. My Audi is my first German car ever after 10 years of Hondas. It is a very different animal.

 

[chet2]

give the new cruze or euro ford focus a try, very good mpg in gas engines and focus was designed in europe...my focus gets 37mpg

 

[sciphi]

The HPFP issues that aren't resolved yet (AFAIK), the purchase price, the insanely complicated exhaust systems on the 09+ diesels, and VW's spotty reliability.

If you want something good on gas and fun to drive, look hard at the Cruze Eco MT version. It'll get about the same mileage, the interior is a nice place, the handling is surprisingly responsive, and it's a turbo Ecotec. That engine will take whatever you can throw at it, and keep on kicking hard. I'm looking hard at one in a few years as a Buick replacement.

 

[rationull]

The only thing that would stop me is the HPFP problem that's been mentioned already. Other than that it seems like a great package if you're OK with the price. A co-worker of mine just got a white 5 door with the DSG. I'd go for the 6 speed manual if I were in the market.

 

[Y_K]

German car quality has been going down for the past 25 years. Porsche is the only exception. As someone who lived there for a long time I can not get this Audi fad outside of Germany. In there they call it "expensive VW", it's like a "Pomeranian Soldier", if you know what it means. Q7 is a catastrophe. Yetta was a very small car for students over there. What quality and premium feel are you talking about?
A friend has a perpetual problem fest with his '07 TDI. Old Rabbits used to go million miles albeit with 69 hp, this wasn't enough to transport an average 300 lb driver later on, so they switched to these Yettas

 

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: Y_K
German car quality has been going down for the past 25 years. . . Old Rabbits used to go million miles albeit with 69 hp, this wasn't enough to transport an average 300 lb driver later on, so they switched to these Yettas


Except for Mercs up until the late '80s, the other Germans have always required a little extra care and can be problematic. There were troublesome VWs and Audis in the early '70s. Porsches and BMWs were hardly any better. But when they worked, they were a lot of fun to drive.

The old diesel rabbits were no joy ride. I owned one back in '80. Other than the terrific mileage and the go-kart handling, it was noisy and broke constantly. It vibrated so bad, it regularly fatigued accessory bolts. We wound up having to replace them all with Grade 12s. Not that it mattered: if you ran the AC, you couldn't go uphill.

The new generation TDIs are a world better. We'll give up a little mileage for a much more refined and responsive power train. The new ones are good, reliable cars. While the power trains are still coming from Germany, they're final assembled in Mexico now, FWIW.

 

[MrHorspwer]

Edmunds Inside Line currently has a 2011 Jetta TDI in their long term test fleet. The average MPG for May is sitting at 32.6 MPG, but their best MPG is only 38.8. This is a far cry from the 50+ mpg some people (mainly on the VW and TDI forums) are touting. There have been a number of blog posts on the site lamenting the actual fuel economy compared to the hyped up "real world" numbers.

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
What year? There have been many a Jetta TDI to hit absolutely insanely high mileage. Others have had significant problems.


My friends was in the significant problems catagory.

My 02 was also.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: Volvohead

The old diesel rabbits were no joy ride. I owned one back in '80. Other than the terrific mileage and the go-kart handling, it was noisy and broke constantly. It vibrated so bad, it regularly fatigued accessory bolts. We wound up having to replace them all with Grade 12s. Not that it mattered: if you ran the AC, you couldn't go uphill.

I dated a girl in college that had an old diesel Rabbit. I called it the "disease-el" It was slow. Slow doesn't really do it justice. It was ssssllllloooowwwww. If you kept your foot buried in it, you could maybe reach 70...maybe. National speed limit was 55 when it was made so I guess that was acceptable. The left taillight was completely soot stained. You could barely see light through it. Her father had filled the rust holes around the windshield with caulk and whatever else he could stuff in there.

But it did run. When it was cold it would take awhile for all 4 cylinders to catch and shook like a paint mixer but it did run.

 

[hattaresguy]

I owned a couple VW's, worst cars I have ever owned, total junk and that's coming from someone who loves German cars.


Gas isn't that expensive, just buy another 4cylinder Honda and call it good. Nice and simple and good mileage, the new Accords are nice and a lot more car than a Jetta TDI.

 

[FowVay]

Pros for the TDI: simply a pleasure to drive. 140 HP, 236 lb/ft of torque, a 6 speed manual gearbox, all combined with a light splash of well-tuned independent suspension and you have a entertaining vehicle.

Cons for the TDI: Volkswagen of America! The cars are different to maintain and you get no support from the dealership. You have to view them simply as a source for parts. Technical competence is non-existent with them.

I've driven VW TDI's for the past 12 years and currently own a 2009 model Jetta. I greatly prefer the Golf hatchback design but when I was in the market there was no Golf TDI so I had to settle. The source for lower cost parts is abundant and technical support from the TDI club is excellent. I do own a Vag-Com (VCDS) computer to allow complete diagnostics of all vehicle systems but it's a very well spent $350. I used this for setting the injection pump timing on my previous TDI after a timing belt change and I use it to reset the service interval reminder and to prime my fuel filter on my newest TDI.

The cars aren't for the mechanically ignorant. You MUST be involved with them to enjoy them. If you just want to put fuel in and never give them a second thought then I don't recommened them. In fact, I call my VW's my favorite hobby.

FWIW, I've never experienced the mechanical issues that I read about from VW on the internet. My 1999.5 model Golf TDI was the first year for the A4 chassis TDI (excluding the 1998 Beetle) in the USA and it was the best car I've ever owned. It wasn't perfect by any measure but certainly no worse than anything else I've owned. But that car would go 700+ miles on a 14.5 gallon tank of diesel (avg 47-50 MPG) and it was a blast to drive. It wasn't fast! It was just fun.

My newest TDI isn't as efficient but then it produces 55% more horsepower and 57% more torque. I know of NO 40+ MPG gasoline fueled economy cars that can match the dynamics of the TDI. My current TDI still uses a 14.5 gallon tank but the economy has dropped down to about 640 miles per tank. (avg 43-45 MPG)

FWIW, I paid $19,800 for my 2009 model. I cross-shopped the typical offerings from Saturn, Honda, Toyota and they weren't even in the same league. Ford and Chevy didn't have their newest offerings on the market yet and their offerings at the time were bad jokes.

If it's your first venture into European cars then it will be a learning curve. They are different. The design philosophy of the engineers is different. And sometimes you have to stand back just wonder what on earth they were thinking. But when put together it all makes sense. I just wish there were more (any) enthusiastic dealerships that existed because of their love for the brand instead of their love of money. It would make the ownership experience much more pleasurable.

Oh, and one last thing - the Sedan is made in Mexico. The wagon is made in Germany. There's no discernible difference in build quality between either vehicle.

 

[Scum_Frog]

I'm new the the whole VW thing. What FowVay says above ^^^^^^ is pretty spot on from everything I researched before diving in.
Although I do not have the deseal, I opted for the 2.0T, some friends do and they love it. No issues like some have stated here.

 

[sasilverbullet]

I own a 02 Beetle TDI - I bought it at 90K miles and at 165k it's still running strong. It gets 36mpg combo city/Highway driving with the A/C on all the time. I've not done anything to the engine except timing belt/water pump at 90k. I'd rate the reliability and driveability of this engine a 9.5. The auto trans seems fine once you get going but when you put it in D it takes about 4 seconds for it to "engage". It's been like this since I purchased it so i don't know if it's going out or if it will run forever like this. Now the rest of the car is where I have issues. The build quality of the interior is about a 5 at best. I've spent lots of money on things like: seat belt sensor - $400, steering column blinker switch - $400, having the headliner replaced, having the door panels replaced because of the glue separating, plastic covers breaking off and having the drivers seat re-foamed because it was hurting my back so bad.

I just gave this car to my son so I had to go look for a replacement that gets decent mileage cuz my 70 Lincoln Mk III gets 11mpg on premium...that's about $450 a month for gas! Yikes!

I ended up buying a 06 Civic EX 2-door with manual trans for $2K under book value. My neighbor is a Honda mechanic so he went over it with a fine toothed comb and we ended up replacing a broken motor mount, turning all four rotors and putting new pads in, Hunter Road Force balanced all four tires, replaced the broken sun visors (there's a recall for them). Car runs perfect now and gets 34mpg with combo city/highway w/A/C on. This engine also has a timing chain, no belt. Interior build quality is way better than the bug. Comfort level/driveability is about the same.

The bug and the Civic are both worth about $8K so I think I did pretty good on finding a cheap replacement. When you factor the price of diesel vs price of regular the Civic is actually a tad cheaper to drive.

 

[Ausfahrt]

Originally Posted By: FowVay


FWIW, I paid $19,800 for my 2009 model. I cross-shopped the typical offerings from Saturn, Honda, Toyota and they weren't even in the same league. Ford and Chevy didn't have their newest offerings on the market yet and their offerings at the time were bad jokes.


Wow, that's a great price! We shopped TDI Jetta's in '09 before we bought the Mini and dealers were not willing to deal at all. The sedans were all around 24k and the Sportwagen was close to 27k.

I am sure that we would be diving a TDI Jetta right now if we could have bought it for anywhere near $19,800.

 

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: FowVay
Oh, and one last thing - the Sedan is made in Mexico. The wagon is made in Germany. There's no discernible difference in build quality between either vehicle.


Not our '09 JSW TDI. It came from Mexico. Things may be different now. We pre-ordered six months in advance of the model introduction, and probably have one of the first hundred or so sold here in the US. This was when VW had an engine plant fire in Germany, and the initial US dealer deliveries were a trickle and some dealers were demanding MSRP+ on the few available. Right after the '09 model introduction, they stopped taking customer orders - you took what the factory delivered. Hopefully that practice has changed. I remember the dealer didn't even have 507.00 oil on hand yet when we took delivery.

It is very solidly made, however, and we have a fairly competent dealer if there ever is a problem. So far, we have had no meaningful problems with it - as reliable so far as our made-in-Japan Japanese vehicles were. As VW diesels go, I think we have a keeper. They've come a long way over the years. Whether it will outlast my 850, we will see.

 

[Mustang_Cougar]

I thought about buying a Sportwagen recently, but I think "Das Auto" sucks, I don't look like the Ikea/Apple/REI sheeple they portray in their ads and I refuse to pay $27K for a tarted-up diesel Golf wagon.

This company (VW-America) actually drives me away from their products w/their marketing. They should stop trying to sell me a lifestyle and just get back to value and "driving pleasure."

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Mustang_Cougar
They should stop trying to sell me a lifestyle and just get back to value and "driving pleasure."

I don't think they can do both these days. They can't engineer driving pleasure and still compete with Kia/Hyundai on price. If that was possible, Toyota and Honda would already be doing it. Instead, they're building appliances, and so is VW nowadays (for the most part) because after all, price is the biggest factor for most buyers, and the sales numbers of the new Jetta seem to prove it.

 

[stockrex]

when I was in the market for an eco car, eco in the per mile cost, I remember doing the math to compare a hybrid/diesel/compact.

The compact Fit/Corolla won.

if diesel ever does down to below regular, I think I might get one.

 

[Volvohead]

Diesel will never sell for less than regular grade gas forthe foreseeable future, for a variety of reasons, market and technical.

But based on our calculations several years ago, strictly on fuel costs, the TDI starts saving over the comparable gas model when the price of regular is over about $3.75. This is on a miles per fuel dollar basis.

The savings become much more meaningful when the monthly mileage is higher. Daily commutes in excess of 50-60 miles can rack up some good savings, and fewer pump stops. Our TDI is capable of a 600 mile tank range, if driven gently.

For a vehicle only driven around town, the savings are not necessarily worth it, and an electric or hybrid makes more sense.

That's a big reason the long haulers prefer diesel. That, and the fact that a good diesel plant can easily go a million miles w/o rebuild if well-cared for.

 

[SkyGod]

Search vw quality.
Expensive when you buy it and when you service it.
Look elsewhere.