CVT vs geared automatic

[barlowc]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I've driven a JATCO-equipped Nissan...


I was wondering who manufactured the CVTs for Nissan. I didn't know if it was JATCO or AISIN.

 

[BearZDefect]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

My one minor gripe about the CVT is that when you first get into an unfamiliar car with a CVT, you can't really immediately tell much about the car's ultimate limits. In normal driving, the powertrain controller twiddles the CVT and the electronic throttle to get the car to do what it thinks you want- and it does a great job of making a very small, economical engine feel VERY peppy in ordinary driving. But what its hiding from you is that it might be using a whole lot more throttle opening than you realize, so that if you then slam your foot to the floor expecting it to give you MORE, there might not be any more left to give. At least that happened with my rental Nissans. But you learn what the car can do very quickly, and from then on just appreciate how much "go" power it has under normal conditions realizing that it wouldn't be nearly so frisky without the CVT and electronic throttle.

I agree with you, but I think the blame here is on the electronic throttle programming rather than the CVT.

We have a 'go' pedal in modern cars, not a throttle pedal.

 

[johnd]

We have a CVT in the wife's Civic Hybrid. It's ok, I guess but it does take a bit of getting used to. Just like a Buick Dynaflow all over again. My understanding is that CVTs aren't capable of handling really high HP engines so I guess we will continue to see shift type trans in bigger cars.

 

[NightRiderQ45]

Originally Posted By: barlowc
I LOVE the CVT in my Altima Coupe. It makes everything so, so smooth. The original powertrain warranty was 5-years/60,000 miles. But at the tail end of last year I got a letter from Nissan saying that it was being extended to 10-years/120,000 miles. They wouldn't have extended the warranties like that on hundreds of thousands of cars if they weren't confident in them lasting.

No they extended because a lot of Nissan owners were having issues, especially in the 07 and 08 Altima models.

 

[barlowc]

Originally Posted By: NightRiderQ45
they extended because a lot of Nissan owners were having issues, especially in the 07 and 08 Altima models.


Is that fact, or hearsay?

There's been a lot of discussion on the warranty extension topic in the various Nissan forum sites and everything is opinion and guesses, my statement included. Whatever the "real" truth is, we know it was a calculated business decision. Nissan isn't doing it simply to be nice, and they would not do it if they knew it would cost them a lot of money.

What I do know as fact is 1) I LOVE the way it drives, and 2) I don't have any concerns for 10 years.

 

[shrooms]

Like mine a lot.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: NightRiderQ45
Originally Posted By: barlowc
I LOVE the CVT in my Altima Coupe. It makes everything so, so smooth. The original powertrain warranty was 5-years/60,000 miles. But at the tail end of last year I got a letter from Nissan saying that it was being extended to 10-years/120,000 miles. They wouldn't have extended the warranties like that on hundreds of thousands of cars if they weren't confident in them lasting.

No they extended because a lot of Nissan owners were having issues, especially in the 07 and 08 Altima models.

There do seem to be a small number of issues with whine on the 4-cyl CVTs, but nothing alarming.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: BearZDefect

I agree with you, but I think the blame here is on the electronic throttle programming rather than the CVT.

We have a 'go' pedal in modern cars, not a throttle pedal.


I prefer to call it an "engine room telegraph"

Some modern e-throttle cars feel about as responsive to the pedal as the Queen Mary. Especially for someone like me who's used to being able to dump 700+ CFM into 7+ liters just as fast as the cable can snap the butterflies open.

But in the case of the CVT, I think the computer really is manipulating BOTH throttle and driveline ratio together to help create the best acceleration it can dependent on the pedal position. The effect, to me anyway, seemed much more pronounced than on any conventional transmission car I remember, even those with e-throttle.

The best analogy I can think of is a modern turboprop aircraft, where separate fuel and RPM levers have been replaced with a single power lever that manages both torque (the equivalent of throttle opening on a turbine engine) and RPM for the pilot instead of making the pilot operate both levers in coordination. I may have my terminology wrong, but I'm sure a pilot will pipe up and correct me ;-) The computer on the CVT-equipped car has turned the accelerator pedal into a "power" pedal instead of just a throttle pedal. With the added caveat that percent of pedal travel no longer really equates to percent of available power demanded.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: barlowc
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I've driven a JATCO-equipped Nissan...


I was wondering who manufactured the CVTs for Nissan. I didn't know if it was JATCO or AISIN.


AFAIK JATCO makes them for both Nissan and Chrysler. Not sure who's making the ones Ford uses.

 

[Falcon_LS]

Two years ago, I had an '08 Mitsubishi Outlander with a CVT. It only had a 2.4 litre engine, granted with variable valve timing. But the CVT made it a joy to drive!

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Not sure who's making the ones Ford uses.


Ford-ZF joint venture

 

[donz26]

Nissan seems to have done a better job with the programming of the cvt than other manufacturers.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: donz26
Nissan seems to have done a better job with the programming of the cvt than other manufacturers.


Arguable

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: donz26
Nissan seems to have done a better job with the programming of the cvt than other manufacturers.


I hope you're wrong but I've only driven the Murano. I hate this thing with a passion. If I floor it from a standstill, it takes literally 5-6 seconds to get into the powerband. Even my torqueless wonder Acura will destroy it off the line. Response once moving is better but terribly slow. I usually drive very easy but I find myself giving it more throttle than normal because trying to drive it easy means lugging the engine down to 1,100 rpm I guess in an attempt to save fuel. This results in a surge and pinging on premium gas.

Putting it into sport mode goes too far the other way. Rpms stay around 4,500 all the time. I wish there was some medium ground.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: barlowc
They wouldn't have extended the warranties like that on hundreds of thousands of cars if they weren't confident in them lasting.


If only that were so.

Long automotive warranties are more often offered when there is a problem with buyers faith in the product.

A good example of a manufacturer extending warranty length on their cars with problematic automatic transmissions was Honda/Acura in the early 2000s.



That's the truth. I'll scan the letter I got from them on the extended warranty. It sounded like a sales pitch and well worded by the lawyers.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: donz26
Nissan seems to have done a better job with the programming of the cvt than other manufacturers.


I hope you're wrong but I've only driven the Murano. I hate this thing with a passion. If I floor it from a standstill, it takes literally 5-6 seconds to get into the powerband. Even my torqueless wonder Acura will destroy it off the line. Response once moving is better but terribly slow. I usually drive very easy but I find myself giving it more throttle than normal because trying to drive it easy means lugging the engine down to 1,100 rpm I guess in an attempt to save fuel. This results in a surge and pinging on premium gas.

Putting it into sport mode goes too far the other way. Rpms stay around 4,500 all the time. I wish there was some medium ground.


I've heard the programming in the 2nd generation Murano is much, much better.

The CVT in my mom's Altima V6 is simply fantastic. No lugging, no lag, super responsive off the line. The sport mode doesn't seem to make a significant difference from what I can tell.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: donz26
Nissan seems to have done a better job with the programming of the cvt than other manufacturers.


I hope you're wrong but I've only driven the Murano. I hate this thing with a passion. If I floor it from a standstill, it takes literally 5-6 seconds to get into the powerband. Even my torqueless wonder Acura will destroy it off the line. Response once moving is better but terribly slow. I usually drive very easy but I find myself giving it more throttle than normal because trying to drive it easy means lugging the engine down to 1,100 rpm I guess in an attempt to save fuel. This results in a surge and pinging on premium gas.

Putting it into sport mode goes too far the other way. Rpms stay around 4,500 all the time. I wish there was some medium ground.


I've heard the programming in the 2nd generation Murano is much, much better.

The CVT in my mom's Altima V6 is simply fantastic. No lugging, no lag, super responsive off the line. The sport mode doesn't seem to make a significant difference from what I can tell.


That's good to hear. I asked the dealer last time I was there if there were any software updates or recalls but of course the answer was no. This was the same dealer I had to teach what knock retard was when it was in for pinging so it's no surprise.

 

[artificialist]

During 2003 and 2004, the Saturn ION sedan had a 5AT and the Coupe had a CVT. The number of coupes with transmission problems greatk=ly exceeded the number of sedans with transmission problems.

 

[x97labelle]

Originally Posted By: NightRiderQ45
Originally Posted By: barlowc
I LOVE the CVT in my Altima Coupe. It makes everything so, so smooth. The original powertrain warranty was 5-years/60,000 miles. But at the tail end of last year I got a letter from Nissan saying that it was being extended to 10-years/120,000 miles. They wouldn't have extended the warranties like that on hundreds of thousands of cars if they weren't confident in them lasting.

No they extended because a lot of Nissan owners were having issues, especially in the 07 and 08 Altima models.


I did some investigating on this because my wifes 06' mini has one. From what I found, Nissan did the right thing in extending the warranty due to issues. I think there was some trouble in the murano because it is such a heavy car to use a CVT in.

Anyway there are plenty of horror stories out there about mini cooper CVT's. As with any internet research all must be taken with a grain of salt. However we are selling the car. We were going to get a newer cooper S with the regular automatic, but the muffler just rusted out on the 06' and it was quoted by the dealer at a $700 fix. We love that car, but come on.

 

[jdeare]

I had a rental Altima (4-cyl) last year. Initially I thought it had been abused because it had ~60,000 miles on it and it felt like the transmission was slipping badly. Then I realized it was a CVT. But maybe it was still abused? I don't know.

I do not generally get along well with auto transmissions. They always feel like they're in the wrong gear, take too long to shift, seem reluctant to downshift, etc.

My next car will be a manual shift (or maybe one of those dual-clutch things, I don't know).