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#1761285 - 01/29/10 11:26 PM Best Synthetic Motor Oil - Warranty Requirements
DaddyBlogger Offline


Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 58
Loc: Michigan, United States
I am new to this forum and know that this is THE place to seek the wisdom of others in the area of motor oil, etc. Thank you in advance for any insight or clarity you can bring me or others on this issue.

I think I will have to change the motor oil brand I have been using the last year due to an extended warranty I just purchased for my 2003 Honda Odyssey. Extended Warranty is through Warranty Direct should this be a factor. I have used Mobil 1 for close to a decade (including other vehicles) before recently making the switch to Amsoil's Signature Series 0W-30 Full Synthetic Motor Oil. I don't buy into either Mobil's or Amsoil's marketing hype...I made this switch after doing my own research while filtering out all of the Amsoil websites on the internet. I was happy with Mobil 1 but even happier with Amsoil's SS.

My concern is that the terms of my extended warranty state the following:
(The underlining is my emphasis)

"c) Maintain Your Vehicle according to the manufacturer’s recommendations as outlined in the owner’s manual. NOTE: Your
owner’s manual has separate required maintenance schedules for “normal” and “more severe” operating conditions. You are
required to follow the maintenance schedule that applies to Your conditions.
d) Be sure only the proper grade of lubricants and coolants, as recommended by the manufacturer, is used in Your Vehicle.


So I reviewed my owners manual for my 2003 Honda Odyssey and it states (page 298) that if using a synthetic motor oil it must "display the API Certification Seal and be the proper weight as shown in the chart." The chart shows only 5W-20 listed!!

Based on the terms of my extended warranty and what my manual states it seems to suggest that the use of Amsoil Siganture Series 0W-30 will void my extended warranty. I come to this conclusion because Amsoil SS is 0W-30 and NOT 5W-20 as listed in my manual and the Amsoil SS does not have the API Certification Seal on it.

This is quite upsetting because my Honda has never ran better since I put the Amsoil SS oil in it. Zero to little oil burn off or use. The cold starts in Michigan with this oil are incredible. I have calculated a small increase in mpg. Plus I always had a ticking noise in the engine when first starting my Honda and it would eventually disappear after a couple minutes...other Odyssey owners report this as well. Since using the Amsoil SS this initial ticking noise has COMPLETELY disappeared. Now that I must take this warranty into consideration I fear I will be using an inferior motor oil. You have to keep ALL receipts for the extended warranty so they would know if I was using something that was not 5W-20 or API Certified.

I know the Amsoil 0W-30 meets the 5W-20 viscosity but from the wording it does not seem like this matters. They want the oil in your vehicle to match what the Owners Manual states. I also know that the Amsoil SS meets/exceeds various API certifications HOWEVER it does not have the API Certification Seal on the bottle which the manual states your oil should have.

Any suggestions on how I can still continue to use the Amsoil Signature Series 0W-30 and meet the terms of my contract?

If using Amsoil Signature Series 0W-30 is a lost cause because of having to meet this extended warranty's terms what 5W-20 API Certified Synthetic would you recommend?


I truly appreciate any thoughts, opinions, advice, etc that you can give because I am really at a loss as far as what I should do. Thank you for your review.

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#1761297 - 01/29/10 11:53 PM Re: Best Synthetic Motor Oil - Warranty Requirements [Re: DaddyBlogger]
hate2work Offline


Registered: 09/04/08
Posts: 4616
Loc: Western Washington

The Amsoil XL series has the API rating you seek, it's a great oil as well. It's not made for extended drains like the SSO is, but your extended warranty probably doesn't allow for longer drains anyway.

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/xlm.aspx
_________________________

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#1761316 - 01/30/10 12:33 AM Re: Best Synthetic Motor Oil - Warranty Requireme [Re: hate2work]
sangyup81 Offline


Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 1645
Loc: Bowie, MD
Originally Posted By: hate2work

The Amsoil XL series has the API rating you seek, it's a great oil as well. It's not made for extended drains like the SSO is, but your extended warranty probably doesn't allow for longer drains anyway.

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/xlm.aspx


+1
_________________________
00 Camry 122k/125k PeakSyn5w30 Bosch3311
03 Tribute V6 144k/146k MaxLife5w20 M1-210
10 Mazda3 36k/40k XOM10w30 FL300
10 Accord 10k/10k GTX5w20 Puro14610

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#1761318 - 01/30/10 12:35 AM Re: Best Synthetic Motor Oil - Warranty Requirements [Re: hate2work]
tomcat27 Offline


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 2395
Loc: Midwest
like hate2work said: Amsoil's XL series is certified. and certainly many people (including myself, many years ago) wondered about using amsoil that was not API certified. I finally came to the conclusion that I would take a chance. and many years later - I, and many friends, have run Amsoil with long OCI's (10-15k, and beyond) and have never had engine problems. oh, and I maintain approx 20 cars. In fact, a friend's Cavalier was quieter at 170k miles than most Cavaliers with 100k miles. (many of that era had piston slap by that mileage) oh, Amsoil does provide a warranty - in case you have a problem.

the oil you use will only be an issue IF you have an engine problem that is oil-related. so.... it's up to you! otherwise, my Choice would be M1 or Penzz Plat.

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#1761325 - 01/30/10 12:41 AM Re: Best Synthetic Motor Oil - Warranty Requirements [Re: hate2work]
DaddyBlogger Offline


Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 58
Loc: Michigan, United States
Thanks for responding. I am considering the Amsoil XL as a solution to the problem I describe above. The only concern I have is the use of base stock group III.

I also could not find a direct comparision of Amsoil XL to Mobil 1 which I think is a base stock group IV...please school me if I am incorrect on this.

I wish I could find some loophole in my extended warranty terms so that I can continue using the Signature Series.

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#1761327 - 01/30/10 12:46 AM Re: Best Synthetic Motor Oil - Warranty Requireme [Re: DaddyBlogger]
sangyup81 Offline


Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 1645
Loc: Bowie, MD
It's really hard to find data on how much Group III and how much Group IV an oil uses.

Indications do point though (based on Korean MSDS) that M1 uses a mixture of Group III and IV with more of it being III than IV
_________________________
00 Camry 122k/125k PeakSyn5w30 Bosch3311
03 Tribute V6 144k/146k MaxLife5w20 M1-210
10 Mazda3 36k/40k XOM10w30 FL300
10 Accord 10k/10k GTX5w20 Puro14610

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#1761334 - 01/30/10 01:06 AM Re: Best Synthetic Motor Oil - Warranty Requireme [Re: sangyup81]
DaddyBlogger Offline


Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 58
Loc: Michigan, United States
Wow! This forum is excellent...thanks for all of the helpful responses so far.

tomcat27 states, "the oil you use will only be an issue IF you have an engine problem that is oil-related."

This is an excellent point. I am only BITOG educated for several days now so I hate to sound ignorant but I still have much to learn. How would they determine it is oil related? My thinking, until I read your excellent point, is that if the engine fails they would check my receipts and see the type of oil I was using and automatically deny my claim. The warranty fine print does not state they must determine it is oil-related. Is there some type of law that requires them to do so? I apologize if my questions seem too simple...like I said I have much to learn but this forum has been an excellent starting point.

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#1761401 - 01/30/10 05:23 AM Re: Best Synthetic Motor Oil - Warranty Requirements [Re: DaddyBlogger]
The Critic Online   crying


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 17325
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
Originally Posted By: DaddyBlogger
Thanks for responding. I am considering the Amsoil XL as a solution to the problem I describe above. The only concern I have is the use of base stock group III.


Oils are sold on a performance basis, not by the basestock used. The newest Group III base oils, when blended with a well-engineered additive package, may perform equally as well (or better) than a Group IV lubricant. The additive package is just as important as the basestock, so I would not predict an oil's performance solely on the basestock being used. Also, many over-the-counter synthetic oils have a mixture of basestocks-- even many Group III oils have some PAO and Ester in them. For your van, you may want to consider Pennzoil Platinum or the upcoming GF-5 rated Pennzoil Ultra.

Originally Posted By: DaddyBlogger
How would they determine it is oil related? My thinking, until I read your excellent point, is that if the engine fails they would check my receipts and see the type of oil I was using and automatically deny my claim. The warranty fine print does not state they must determine it is oil-related. Is there some type of law that requires them to do so? I apologize if my questions seem too simple...like I said I have much to learn but this forum has been an excellent starting point.


Extended warranties are not governed by the magnuson-moss act as they are considered to be service contracts. You are pretty much forced to do what your contract says or else you risk voiding the warranty.

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#1761416 - 01/30/10 06:15 AM Re: Best Synthetic Motor Oil - Warranty Requirements [Re: The Critic]
NHHEMI Offline


Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 5058
Loc: NH
Originally Posted By: The Critic


Extended warranties are not governed by the magnuson-moss act as they are considered to be service contracts. You are pretty much forced to do what your contract says or else you risk voiding the warranty.


100% correct so you need to follow what they say in your extended warranty contract to the letter! That means use the 5W-20 weight only and be sure it is API certified( see below )as well as meeting any Honda OE oil spec's.

One point on the API part. In 2003 the API service level would have been SL not the current SM. I would say that any API certified oil of grade SL or higher would qualify here as it was the oil called for when your vehicle was new. There are still API certified SL oils on the market that carry the API Donut seal.

I did not read the word "Starburst" seal in your description. Just an API seal. IMO the API Donut, for an SL grade certified oil, qualifies as I can't imagine why you would be required to use a product not even available when the vehicle was built. You might consider calling your warranty company and inquiring( get it in writing! )as it will give you a few more choices.

Pictures of the 2 API seals you can find on oil( left = API donut / right = API starburst )...



Of course if you want to stay with Amsoil products, which is fine, then stop the SSO and go to the XL. It is their only certified oil period.


Edited by NHHEMI (01/30/10 06:20 AM)
_________________________
Royal Purple User Since 1990 thumbsup

2014 Jeep Cherokee
"Latitude"
3.2L V6 4WD( ADI )


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#1761441 - 01/30/10 06:51 AM Re: Best Synthetic Motor Oil - Warranty Requireme [Re: The Critic]
jeepman Offline


Registered: 03/27/06
Posts: 466
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Extended warranties are not governed by the magnuson-moss act as they are considered to be service contracts. You are pretty much forced to do what your contract says or else you risk voiding the warranty.


I have run into this problem as well with my 08 Aveo. I really wanted a good synthetic, but hated to spend the $$$ on 3-4k drains, necessary to keep my dealer warranty intact. I wound up settling on Mobil Clean 5k so I can maintain the dealer warranty, and the Mobil warranty is one of the few that cover's the DIY changes with receipts, so I figure I am double covered. What I read seems to indicate the the SOPUS products are only warrantied if you get it changed at one of their facilities, but Mobil and Valvoline warranty their oils for DIY if you keep records. I don't know about the Amsoil warranty, but others on the board convinced me I need to stay within the dealer warranty, as if something goes wrong I am sure they will look for any way possible to deny the claim.

I believe Honda uses Mobil products as factory fill, maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in to verify this. Today's oils are so good, use what it required and sleep well at night.
_________________________
06 Saturn Vue
SynPower 5w30 / Purolator PL15436

08 Chevrolet Aveo5
SynPower 5w30 / Purolator PL10111


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#1761452 - 01/30/10 07:12 AM Re: Best Synthetic Motor Oil - Warranty Requireme [Re: jeepman]
mez Offline


Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 216
Loc: MA
How long is the extended warranty? What is the chance that a well maintain Honda is going to have oil related engine issues? My guess none. Enjoy Amsoil SSO.
_________________________
2006 Honda Ridgeline RTL

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#1761458 - 01/30/10 07:25 AM Re: Best Synthetic Motor Oil - Warranty Requireme [Re: mez]
Johnny Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 14013
Loc: Retired | Wausau, WI
Since everything with the API supersedes the previous, using API SM would not be an issue.

If the OP has to stick to the letter of the contract and if the only oil mentioned in the manual is 5W-20, then the Amsoil XL series won't work either. It does have the API license, but they do not make it in 5W-20.

If it were mine, and I like the Amsoil SSO 0W-30, I would use it. It is a very good oil. But to be safe, use either Mobil 1 5W-20 or try some of the Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 as was suggested above. They are all great oils and will work in your van.

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#1761459 - 01/30/10 07:26 AM Re: Best Synthetic Motor Oil - Warranty Requireme [Re: mez]
The Critic Online   crying


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 17325
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
Originally Posted By: mez
How long is the extended warranty? What is the chance that a well maintain Honda is going to have oil related engine issues? My guess none. Enjoy Amsoil SSO.


Judging from his original post, he probably purchased a third party warranty. Knowing how shady some of these companies are, they'll probably ask him for his maintenance records when he asks them to fix his radio. duh

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#1761478 - 01/30/10 07:58 AM Re: Best Synthetic Motor Oil - Warranty Requireme [Re: Johnny]
Jehartley Offline


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 270
Loc: Arkansas
Originally Posted By: Johnny

If the OP has to stick to the letter of the contract and if the only oil mentioned in the manual is 5W-20, then the Amsoil XL series won't work either. It does have the API license, but they do not make it in 5W-20.


Maybe I misunderstood this post, but the Amsoil XL line does have a 5w20 and it is API certified with both a donut and the starburst. I'm looking at a bottle right now.


Edited by Jehartley (01/30/10 07:58 AM)
_________________________
2011 GMC Sierra Crew Cab 4.8 V8 4WD
QSUD 5w30/ PureOne Filter
7,500 mile OCI

2010 Chevy Camaro V6
QSUD 5w30/AC Delco Filter
3,500 mile OCI

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#1761507 - 01/30/10 08:19 AM Re: Best Synthetic Motor Oil - Warranty Requireme [Re: Johnny]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46392
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Originally Posted By: Johnny

If the OP has to stick to the letter of the contract and if the only oil mentioned in the manual is 5W-20, then the Amsoil XL series won't work either. It does have the API license, but they do not make it in 5W-20.



Amsoil XL 5W-20 - Product code XLM

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