09 Ford 5.4 - 5W20 required? Or is 5W30 OK?

[AGLT]

Hello, I'm just another 'oily newbie' so please accept my apology if I've posted this question in the wrong forum.

I have a brand new 2009 Ford E-350 XLT SuperDuty 12-passenger van with a 5.4 V8. The Ford recommended oil is 5W20.

My previous '99 van was the same model with same 5.4 engine, but the recommended oil was 5W30.

The '99 engine was great but sold it with 360k on the odo. 2 weeks after an oil change (approx 600 miles) the oil was still an orangey-honey color, transparent on the dipstick... Beginning to darken, but low enough carbon present so you could still see the cross-hatches on the dipstick clearly.

The 5W30 oil I was using combined with the frequency of change & new filter was obviously working fine. No, haven't done an oil analysis, didn't appear to be a need for it.

I have enough of the 5W30 oil still on the shelf in the shop to do roughly 20 oil changes. I would like to start using the 5W30 instead of 5W20 after the factory warranty on the truck has expired as long as using 5W30 doesn't bring harm.

Will the 5W30 be fine on this 09 5.4? Or are there critical differences between the new and old 5.4s to prevent me from using the 5W30?

Hopefully with your help... If I discover I cannot use the 5W30, I can try to sell it to someone who can use it rather than let it sit on the shelf in the shop until the truck warranty is up. Better to sell it sooner if it needs to go.

This is a great forum here! Lots of knowlege in the posts! And lots of reading and learning for me to do now!

 

[river_rat]

5W-30 should be just fine, unless you have a related warranty issue with the engine.
They will not likely honor the warranty if there is any problem they could blame on using the "wrong" oil.

Me? I'm sticking to the XW-20 weights until the warranty expires.

 

[DieselTech]

Your 99 mod engine and the 09 mod engine are very different. BUT I do still run 5-30 in my 99 and 07 ( Same as 99 ) with great success.

I noticed absolutely no difference between the 5-30 and 5-20. My milage is actually up a bit since my switch to redline 5-30 in the 07. The wife got 30 extra miles out of the last tank. This dingy broad lets the gauge get down to when the light turns on......[censored] me off

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: AGLT

I have enough of the 5W30 oil still on the shelf in the shop to do roughly 20 oil changes. I would like to start using the 5W30 instead of 5W20 after the factory warranty on the truck has expired as long as using 5W30 doesn't bring harm.


You could use 5W30 in summer and 5W20 in winter after warranty.

 

[sw99]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

You could use 5W30 in summer and 5W20 in winter after warranty.


+1

 

[modularv8]

I have an '06 F150 5.4l truck. I've done alot of research on this, an insane amount. You can run 5w30 in this engine, but I found the 5w20 is best for this engine because of its design. There was a change beginning in '04 with 3 valve tritons. Mainly, there is a high flow oil pump creating oil pressures of 70 psi @ 2000 rpms which is much higher than the typical 10 psi per 1k rpms and the variable cam timing.

Others will say that the same exact engine is spec'd for high viscosity oil in other countries (Australia). The only place I have found the same exact engine where it was spec'd for other than 5w20 was the country of Chile. Apparently, the motor oil market in other countries don't carry 5w20 because it is more expensive to make and not mandated like in the USA. The Chilean Ford manual mentions 5w30 can be used if 5w20 is not available, however, 5w20 is recommended for optimal economy and durability.

There have been a couple of posts by me regarding this topic.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1649728&page=1

http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/articlearchive/details.aspx?ID=373

 

[AGLT]

Thanks for the replies!

Yes, I already planned to continue using the 20 oil until warranty is expired. Thanks, I'm so glad to hear I can eventually use up the oil I already have.

The 99 & 09 are very different? In what ways?

I do know the new one is E-85 compatible, and I'm sure there are many 'improvements' especially in the emissions areas.

But do they not have very similar basic components such as crankshafts, rods, pistons, and related bearings & journals etc?

Oh, one more... Are there any major valvetrain differences too? Just wondering.

The dealership sales personell, brochures, and manuals don't contain a lot of technical information about the engines. So for the most part I thought a 5.4 was a 5.4. Of course, minus emmissions improvements & calibrations, etc.

 

[DieselTech]

486 miles out of a tank is pretty [censored] good economy for a shortbed...26 gallons. If the wife didn't drive it i would have hand calculated numbers.

She was getting about 440 before the switch to RL. My 99 gets between 17 and 19 MPG. I don't care what anyone says redline works in these engines

 

[AGLT]

Wow, another two posts... Thanks guys!

That is very interesting info about the oil delivery changes to the valvetrain! Thank you so much.

I did consider using the 5W30 in the summer only, that is a good idea, thanks.

But I also thought maybe another way to use up the 5W30 (after warranty) is to blend the oil. I suppose if I mixed it 50/50, it could be somewhat equal to a 5W25. Might be a plan for summer use only and use 5W20 for the winter months exclusively.

Thanks everyone... You guys are great!

 

[DieselTech]

Here is some info for you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_Cam_Timing

 

[Whimsey]

I bought a 2002 F-150 with the modular 4.6. I've always been a big proponent of using 5W-20 in these modular engines. It's worked great for me for 8 years. When the truck was new and UNDER warranty I asked the dealer's service manager what their warranty policy was concerning engine warranty work that can be attributed to oil and the oil used.

He said the first thing they look at is to see if the factory oil filter is still on a vehicle passed 5,000 miles. They then look at the oil and filter provable change records. If they are dubious they drop the oil pan and probably the valve cover to look for signs of neglect.

He told me that whether you used a 5W-20 vs a 5W-30 was not considered as long as they met the proper API service specs called for. It really depends upon each individual dealer as to how hard of a time they can give you. Ford sets the "recommended" standards, but I don't believe they are required. They would have to prove the oil actually caused the problem.

Use a quality 5W-20 without hesitation, but if you have lots of SM 5W-30 to use I don't see a problem. Why don't you check with the dealer first and see what their attitude is.

Whimsey

 

[RISUPERCREWMAN]

The cam phasers ultimately demand 5W-20 on the 2004+ 5.4 3 valve motors!!! You will have phaser problems if you do not use 5W-20!!!

 

[Boss302fan]

Originally Posted By: river_rat
5W-30 should be just fine, unless you have a related warranty issue with the engine.
They will not likely honor the warranty if there is any problem they could blame on using the "wrong" oil.

Me? I'm sticking to the XW-20 weights until the warranty expires.




This is not true and does not make any sense. I have owned Fords for years and have talked to my dealer and they said either weight oil would be fine. I actually called Ford a few years ago and they confirmed that I could use 5W20 or 5W30. Do your homework before typing... LOL.

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Do your homework before typing... LOL.


Don't be a smarta$$
I have not called Ford, specifically, no. But you better get that in writing what they told you.

 

[tig1]

My Duratechs call for 5-20 but 5-30 works fine in them. Just changed the Fusion over to 5-20 2000 miles ago, and the engine runs very well. All I have ever used in the Focus is 5-30, but do plan to put 5-20 in it at 60,000 miles. I don't believe 5-30 hurts any thing.

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: tig1
I don't believe 5-30 hurts any thing.

I don't either.
both 20 and 30 weights go through a lot of viscosity change on warmup and in different driving conditions in different temperatures. Engines cannot, therefore, be that sensitive to a small viscosity difference.
IIRC, it's typically only about 14-19% viscosity difference @ full temp. between 20 and 30 wt.
But if a manufacturer/dealer can get out of warranty claims (dishonestly) because of an unlikely engine issue they can blame (probably again, dishonestly) on you not using the recommended oil weight, then they probably will.
Difficult for them to prove, but it might be a hassle for the owner without something in print.

 

[demarpaint]

I'd stick with what Ford specified if it were my truck. Sell the oil or use it in something else. True the 5W30 won't hurt it, but the engine was designed for 5W20, the mfg specs 5W20, why not just use 5W20? Having worked at a total of 5 dealerships and seeing the red tape a customer can be put through if there is a warranty issue due to customer negligence, for me it isn't worth it.

Now if the dealer says 5W30 is perfectly fine, and will back you up if there is any problem then fine. The key is get it in writing. My bet is if you called Ford Corporate they'd tell you 5W20 and nothing else. Out of warranty use what you want [Ford would still recommend 5W20]. At that point you'd be paying for repairs if you had a problem. JMO

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint

Now if the dealer says 5W30 is perfectly fine, and will back you up if there is any problem then fine. The key is get it in writing.

 

[dnewton3]

A few thoughts on warranty:

If one is under warranty, and the dealer suggests using something other than what is specified in the manual will not negate warranty, I would DEMAND it in writing. If the dealership is unwilling to put it in writing, then that should tell you something right there ... Further, a dealership cannot legally commit FORD to anything. If a dealer does put something in writing, it only obligates the dealership, not Ford. Good luck with getting that to happen. Many times I have challenged people behind the counter with this concept; if their belief is so great, put up or shut up. Typically, they shut up. The written word always supercedes the spoken word. A written warranty is a written contract of sorts, and it will always reign over what a guy behind the counter tells you. The limited warranty is not for your protection; it is for the OEMs protection, primarily. A dealer does not have legal authority to manipulate the written warranty from Ford.

If one's vehicle is not under warrnty any longer, there is no risk to the dealer or Ford. The dealer could not care less what happened to your ride at that point, nor could Ford, from a fiscal point of view, because the obligation is over. Verbal statements are only advice at that point, and are not legally binding.

Regarding the engine differences, there are many including the oil system, the variable valve timing, the intake system, etc. At it's core, the block and rotating assembly are same/similar, but many of the lubricated parts have changed over the years.

Regarding viscosity, I don't see a huge risk by using 5w-30, but I would ask a fundemental question ...
If you are going to trust the 5w-20 for 5 years (for the full powertrain warranty period), then why not do some UOAs along the way? After that, you'll have the proof that 5w-20 does a fine job. In fact, I rather doubt that we would see much difference over a large statistical sampling between 5w-20 and 5w-30, in regard to wear. So, some would say "use the 5w-30; it does no harm". But I would ask, "Why use something that is not spec'd, when there is no conclusive proof that thicker is better?" If the 5w-20 is good enough for the first 60k miles, do you think that somehow the engine will magically develop a thirst for thicker oil at 61k miles???

Another thing to ponder is how "performance" can be defined in many different ways. Let's assume, for the sake of the debate, that 5w-30 protects against wear no better or worse than 5w-20 (which is likely). That is not the ONLY thing to consider when choosing a lube. Another thing to consider is the VVT system and its ability to function. Perhaps 5w-30 does protect as well, but it's also possible that the VVT system will not respond as quickly or efficiently with a thicker oil. I don't know this for sure, but I do know that most VVT systems (from many manufacturers) have great success with thinner grades, and rev far higher (Honda, Toyota, Nissan), and yet still have great wear numbers overall. My point is that wear is not the sole deciding factor when choosing a lube; there are other performance issues to view. Which brings me to my next point.

At some point, we can assume a convergence of the use of thinner oils (likely mostly due to CAFE fuel mileage issues) and the constant developmental evolution of equipment. It's the "chicken and the egg" theory here. Did Ford design the new VVT system to be used with lighter grade oil because it was already in use for the concern for mileage, or did the oil get spec'd because a lighter grade promotes better VVT operation? Frankly, I don't think it matters much either way. 5w-20 is spec'd; it works fine, and none of us were privy to the whole log of data that likely went into Ford's decision. I used to work at Ford for 16 years; I can assure you that all large corporate decisions are a compromise of many, many considerations. 5w-20 is spec'd because it provides the best overall conditional response to a multitude of scenarios.

Will using a non-spec'd, slightly thicker oil hurt the engine? Likely not.
Will using a non-spec'd, slightly thicker oil help the engine? Likely not.

Why venture outside the box if there is no reasonable reward for the risk?

 

[bradepb]

excellent post dnewton ! I dont know why people are still questioning this after ten years of ford specing 5-20 oil,sure maybe the clearances are the same , maybe not but oil pumps, valve trains etc. go through changes also.

to the original poster,use the 5-20 that ford has recomended for the past ten model years, especially in the great white north and forget about the stash of 5-30