Originally Posted By: dnewton3
A few thoughts on warranty:
If one is under warranty, and the dealer suggests using something other than what is specified in the manual will not negate warranty, I would DEMAND it in writing. If the dealership is unwilling to put it in writing, then that should tell you something right there ... Further, a dealership cannot legally commit FORD to anything. If a dealer does put something in writing, it only obligates the dealership, not Ford. Good luck with getting that to happen. Many times I have challenged people behind the counter with this concept; if their belief is so great, put up or shut up. Typically, they shut up. The written word always supercedes the spoken word. A written warranty is a written contract of sorts, and it will always reign over what a guy behind the counter tells you. The limited warranty is not for your protection; it is for the OEMs protection, primarily. A dealer does not have legal authority to manipulate the written warranty from Ford.
If one's vehicle is not under warrnty any longer, there is no risk to the dealer or Ford. The dealer could not care less what happened to your ride at that point, nor could Ford, from a fiscal point of view, because the obligation is over. Verbal statements are only advice at that point, and are not legally binding.
Regarding the engine differences, there are many including the oil system, the variable valve timing, the intake system, etc. At it's core, the block and rotating assembly are same/similar, but many of the lubricated parts have changed over the years.
Regarding viscosity, I don't see a huge risk by using 5w-30, but I would ask a fundemental question ...
If you are going to trust the 5w-20 for 5 years (for the full powertrain warranty period), then why not do some UOAs along the way? After that, you'll have the proof that 5w-20 does a fine job. In fact, I rather doubt that we would see much difference over a large statistical sampling between 5w-20 and 5w-30, in regard to wear. So, some would say "use the 5w-30; it does no harm". But I would ask, "Why use something that is not spec'd, when there is no conclusive proof that thicker is better?" If the 5w-20 is good enough for the first 60k miles, do you think that somehow the engine will magically develop a thirst for thicker oil at 61k miles???
Another thing to ponder is how "performance" can be defined in many different ways. Let's assume, for the sake of the debate, that 5w-30 protects against wear no better or worse than 5w-20 (which is likely). That is not the ONLY thing to consider when choosing a lube. Another thing to consider is the VVT system and its ability to function. Perhaps 5w-30 does protect as well, but it's also possible that the VVT system will not respond as quickly or efficiently with a thicker oil. I don't know this for sure, but I do know that most VVT systems (from many manufacturers) have great success with thinner grades, and rev far higher (Honda, Toyota, Nissan), and yet still have great wear numbers overall. My point is that wear is not the sole deciding factor when choosing a lube; there are other performance issues to view. Which brings me to my next point.
At some point, we can assume a convergence of the use of thinner oils (likely mostly due to CAFE fuel mileage issues) and the constant developmental evolution of equipment. It's the "chicken and the egg" theory here. Did Ford design the new VVT system to be used with lighter grade oil because it was already in use for the concern for mileage, or did the oil get spec'd because a lighter grade promotes better VVT operation? Frankly, I don't think it matters much either way. 5w-20 is spec'd; it works fine, and none of us were privy to the whole log of data that likely went into Ford's decision. I used to work at Ford for 16 years; I can assure you that all large corporate decisions are a compromise of many, many considerations. 5w-20 is spec'd because it provides the best overall conditional response to a multitude of scenarios.
Will using a non-spec'd, slightly thicker oil hurt the engine? Likely not.
Will using a non-spec'd, slightly thicker oil help the engine? Likely not.
Why venture outside the box if there is no reasonable reward for the risk?
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
excellent post dnewton ! I dont know why people are still questioning this after ten years of ford specing 5-20 oil,sure maybe the clearances are the same , maybe not but oil pumps, valve trains etc. go through changes also.
to the original poster,use the 5-20 that ford has recomended for the past ten model years, especially in the great white north and forget about the stash of 5-30
+1 Great info guys, it mirrors my feelings on the topic. A lot of research went into the engine design, and oil specs for it. I'd stick with Ford's recommendations. Again JMO
A few thoughts on warranty:
If one is under warranty, and the dealer suggests using something other than what is specified in the manual will not negate warranty, I would DEMAND it in writing. If the dealership is unwilling to put it in writing, then that should tell you something right there ... Further, a dealership cannot legally commit FORD to anything. If a dealer does put something in writing, it only obligates the dealership, not Ford. Good luck with getting that to happen. Many times I have challenged people behind the counter with this concept; if their belief is so great, put up or shut up. Typically, they shut up. The written word always supercedes the spoken word. A written warranty is a written contract of sorts, and it will always reign over what a guy behind the counter tells you. The limited warranty is not for your protection; it is for the OEMs protection, primarily. A dealer does not have legal authority to manipulate the written warranty from Ford.
If one's vehicle is not under warrnty any longer, there is no risk to the dealer or Ford. The dealer could not care less what happened to your ride at that point, nor could Ford, from a fiscal point of view, because the obligation is over. Verbal statements are only advice at that point, and are not legally binding.
Regarding the engine differences, there are many including the oil system, the variable valve timing, the intake system, etc. At it's core, the block and rotating assembly are same/similar, but many of the lubricated parts have changed over the years.
Regarding viscosity, I don't see a huge risk by using 5w-30, but I would ask a fundemental question ...
If you are going to trust the 5w-20 for 5 years (for the full powertrain warranty period), then why not do some UOAs along the way? After that, you'll have the proof that 5w-20 does a fine job. In fact, I rather doubt that we would see much difference over a large statistical sampling between 5w-20 and 5w-30, in regard to wear. So, some would say "use the 5w-30; it does no harm". But I would ask, "Why use something that is not spec'd, when there is no conclusive proof that thicker is better?" If the 5w-20 is good enough for the first 60k miles, do you think that somehow the engine will magically develop a thirst for thicker oil at 61k miles???
Another thing to ponder is how "performance" can be defined in many different ways. Let's assume, for the sake of the debate, that 5w-30 protects against wear no better or worse than 5w-20 (which is likely). That is not the ONLY thing to consider when choosing a lube. Another thing to consider is the VVT system and its ability to function. Perhaps 5w-30 does protect as well, but it's also possible that the VVT system will not respond as quickly or efficiently with a thicker oil. I don't know this for sure, but I do know that most VVT systems (from many manufacturers) have great success with thinner grades, and rev far higher (Honda, Toyota, Nissan), and yet still have great wear numbers overall. My point is that wear is not the sole deciding factor when choosing a lube; there are other performance issues to view. Which brings me to my next point.
At some point, we can assume a convergence of the use of thinner oils (likely mostly due to CAFE fuel mileage issues) and the constant developmental evolution of equipment. It's the "chicken and the egg" theory here. Did Ford design the new VVT system to be used with lighter grade oil because it was already in use for the concern for mileage, or did the oil get spec'd because a lighter grade promotes better VVT operation? Frankly, I don't think it matters much either way. 5w-20 is spec'd; it works fine, and none of us were privy to the whole log of data that likely went into Ford's decision. I used to work at Ford for 16 years; I can assure you that all large corporate decisions are a compromise of many, many considerations. 5w-20 is spec'd because it provides the best overall conditional response to a multitude of scenarios.
Will using a non-spec'd, slightly thicker oil hurt the engine? Likely not.
Will using a non-spec'd, slightly thicker oil help the engine? Likely not.
Why venture outside the box if there is no reasonable reward for the risk?
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
excellent post dnewton ! I dont know why people are still questioning this after ten years of ford specing 5-20 oil,sure maybe the clearances are the same , maybe not but oil pumps, valve trains etc. go through changes also.
to the original poster,use the 5-20 that ford has recomended for the past ten model years, especially in the great white north and forget about the stash of 5-30
+1 Great info guys, it mirrors my feelings on the topic. A lot of research went into the engine design, and oil specs for it. I'd stick with Ford's recommendations. Again JMO
