Mobil 1 5w/30, 5000 miles, Chrysler 300M

[2k05gt]

This is the UOA for my Wifes 2004 Chrysler 300M
We have always used Mobil 1 5W/30 and M1 Filters.

I am concerned at the wear, could this be due to the milage 80,000 miles and most of the time it's in stop and go traffic.
Commuter Car.

Should I be looking at a different Oil?
Any suggestions? I am considering Castrol EDGE, it states - provides 8X BETTER WEAR PROTECTION THAN MOBIL 1 5W-30

 

[Indiana79]

Wow!! somthing isnt right with this uoa! Although Iron levels seem to be a little higher with mobil 1, copper and lead usually are not and both are high in this sample. With 80k on the clock everything is well seated in your engine. I wouldnt get too concerned with the 8x better wear protection advertisement stuff you see on tv, however i would def. try a different oil such as pennzoil or valvoline synthetic or maybe a higher end oil such as schaeffer's to see if your wear trend improves.

 

[buster]

Doesn't look good and I don't know why.

 

[tig1]

It's almost like there may be bearing failure with the high copper and lead. With the high iron maybe something is coming apart in the engine. Not right for sure.

 

[2003f7]

Originally Posted By: tig1
It's almost like there may be bearing failure with the high copper and lead. With the high iron maybe something is coming apart in the engine. Not right for sure.
Iron is from the crank. lead and copper from the bearings.

 

[SLCraig]

Doesn't the 3.5L recommend 10w30? Either way, that's weird.. Those 3.5's are great engines..

 

[2k05gt]

it says 5w/30 in the manual.
I have did get this sample towards the end of the drain, I was distracted when draining the oil it was close to the end when I got it so some settiment from the pan could have got into the sample.

I am going to try pennzoil platinum next, I may drain the M1 out next week. I am going to also do a test on my 2000 Silverado Z71 4X4 with 147,000 miles and see what results I get from it.

I still like the Castrol Edge Commercials LOL they make me laugh ...

 

[Spykem4e]

what would cause the oil to shear?

Is the oil a 5w20 now?

 

[2k05gt]

no 5w/30 I put the same stuff back in.
The Car is in a lot of stop ans go traffic, also short runs, my wife is a Special Education Teacher and drives to alot of schools in the area during the day for classes, and then drives to collage classes at night finishing her PHD.

She does drive like a bat out of [censored], she likes to get up to the speed limit as fast as possable, LOL

We have never had any engine work done, or any issues with the engine at all, in fact it has been a great car, except for a vibration that started a few months ago.

 

[2k05gt]

Originally Posted By: tig1
It's almost like there may be bearing failure with the high copper and lead. With the high iron maybe something is coming apart in the engine. Not right for sure.


I may have to check into that, like I said, there is a slight vibration from the engine in the 2000-4000 rpm range
I thought is was from the trans but since you said this, I am thinking engine now.

 

[unDummy]

Use a thicker oil like M1 0w40 or GC 0w30.

No burning any oil or not topping off as needed?

 

[2k05gt]

No burning that I know of, I change oil every 2-3 months so I don't notice any level change. We did run the oil abit longer the last change, I think about 8K, my wife made a few trips to South Carolina to visit her sister and that oil change was low.

Edit..
What is GC?

 

[Scienceman]

Do you want your wife driving a car with a dying engine????

 

[2k05gt]

Originally Posted By: Troy_Built
Do you want your wife driving a car with a dying engine????

Of course not, but I am not sure it's dying, there is no external evidence that it's dying. just because a UOA shows high wear does not mean it's going to die next week. On that note, Monday it's going into the shop for a checkup to see if there is anything wrong.

Thanks

 

[HighViscosity]

With the relatively low aluminum and chromium numbers viscosity could be a significant factor here. That can be caused by larger tolerances (wear) lowering oil pressure. Then when you have physical contact often wear really accelerates, dropping pressure further. If your wife does mostly city driving she has a lot of hours idling in gear at red lights. If her IACV (Idle air control valve, adds air at idle to maintain rpm) is dirty or the throttle body is dirty, rpm may be below spec dropping oil pressure to an unsafe level. Using a thin oil with low zinc, phosphorous, boron, and moly didn't offer much protection. Pistons (aluminum) and rings (chromium) are less affected by viscosity and oil pressure.

This is just one of several reasons for the results you posted, but to test it I would run a stout/HD oil and check for improvement at mid interval. A few I would consider is your camtastic Royal Purple, but in 10w-40 (I'm currently awaiting Blackstones results on this), rotella RTS 5-40, Delvac, etc. I've heard Schaeffers oil does very well with managing this problem, but you have to order that.

If you dont hear a knock at hot idle it probably wont die next week. Also, those numbers dont necessarily mean that your engine is rapidly dying, but I do think the data is telling you to try something different.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: buster
Doesn't look good and I don't know why.


Me neither. This is so rare. In fact, while we've seen high readings, we usually have a mostly clear logical path to the cause. Visc is fine, no coolant or excessive contaminants ..on fuel of merit ..flash is in a preferred range. It's not tracked/flogged. I don't think we've really seen something like this in my time here.

I'll go with the faulty sample thing until next round.

Quote:
I have did get this sample towards the end of the drain, I was distracted when draining the oil it was close to the end when I got it so some settiment from the pan could have got into the sample.

 

[unDummy]

GC is Castrol Syntec 0w30. It is thick for a 30wt.
Mobil1 0w40 is another good choice.
Both should bump up your oil PSI a little and give you a little more film thickness.

 

[2k05gt]

Originally Posted By: HighViscosity
With the relatively low aluminum and chromium numbers viscosity could be a significant factor here. That can be caused by larger tolerances (wear) lowering oil pressure. Then when you have physical contact often wear really accelerates, dropping pressure further. If your wife does mostly city driving she has a lot of hours idling in gear at red lights. If her IACV (Idle air control valve, adds air at idle to maintain rpm) is dirty or the throttle body is dirty, rpm may be below spec dropping oil pressure to an unsafe level. Using a thin oil with low zinc, phosphorous, boron, and moly didn't offer much protection. Pistons (aluminum) and rings (chromium) are less affected by viscosity and oil pressure.

This is just one of several reasons for the results you posted, but to test it I would run a stout/HD oil and check for improvement at mid interval. A few I would consider is your camtastic Royal Purple, but in 10w-40 (I'm currently awaiting Blackstones results on this), rotella RTS 5-40, Delvac, etc. I've heard Schaeffers oil does very well with managing this problem, but you have to order that.

If you dont hear a knock at hot idle it probably wont die next week. Also, those numbers dont necessarily mean that your engine is rapidly dying, but I do think the data is telling you to try something different.


Thanks,
one more thing is last month it was in the shop for a bad cam position sensor, 340.00 to replace.
But I do not think that would have anything to do with these numbers, would it? could the dealer while testing caused somthing to go wrong?. also I mentioned in a previous post, could the last bit of oil in the pan have higher readings? Like I said I did sample the last bit. I had no choice, my grand daughter was helping me and distracted me from collecting the mid drain oil.

I am going to have another test done soon, your comments are worring me and I can't beleive somthing is wrong with the engine, this car has been solid.

 

[2k05gt]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

I'll go with the faulty sample thing until next round.


I agree, I should have watched this closer, but I did not think it would throw it off that much.

 

[HighViscosity]

Originally Posted By: 2k05gt

Thanks,
one more thing is last month it was in the shop for a bad cam position sensor, 340.00 to replace.
But I do not think that would have anything to do with these numbers, would it? could the dealer while testing caused something to go wrong?. also I mentioned in a previous post, could the last bit of oil in the pan have higher readings? Like I said I did sample the last bit. I had no choice, my grand daughter was helping me and distracted me from collecting the mid drain oil.

I am going to have another test done soon, your comments are worrying me and I can't believe something is wrong with the engine, this car has been solid.


The only two readings I would expect to rise with that sensor replacement would be silicon and maybe insolubles, so I don't think that had an impact. I don't think it was anything the dealer could have done wrong either. As to the end of the sample having higher concentrations, while possible I have never seen an oil pan of a decently maintained car have anything in it, even when wiping it out with a paper towel. Gear cases are a different story. Particles around the plug opening are few and would likely get flushed out by then. The start of the flow has the highest flow rate due to pressure (higher head pressure due to gravity). Also the particle sizes that can be "seen" by the UOA aren't the metal flakes you sometimes see in oil, they are much smaller. The also are typically suspended in the oil because of their low mass, not lying on the bottom.

I wouldn't start worrying yet. I've seen healthy GM V-8's with numbers like that. I would just be happy that I was proactive and discovered a potential problem early on. That UOA did its job. I gave my dad a free Blackstone kit for Christmas.

If you drain this oil out you can save it and use it in another car. I would just recommend trying something different. The scientific method works well in situations like this. If you want to do an easy sample mid interval you can use thin plastic tubing (even nasal canula tubing) to suck it out the dipstick tube. Just don't use the first few ounces for the sample due to possible contamination.

Good luck