Mobil 1 5w/30, 5000 miles, Chrysler 300M

[2k05gt]

Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
If the cam sensor was bad enough detonation could have been taking place which would explain all of the above. Detonation will destroy an engine if left un checkedlong enough. I have seen a few rare cases of detonation from bad feul or ignition problems that had super high lead,iron levels and other wear metals too that where insane. In fact until the owner mentionedit I would have thought the engine ws coming apart. I would definately try M1 0W40.It shears to a 0W30 rather quickly but it has some good chemicalproperties that make it good for cleaning any excessive wer metals out andnormalizing things. It flows fast and plates up well under EP conditions. I would try that before going to RTS 5W40 with winter upon us.


I plan on changeing this weekend, it's winter time here so would a 0w40 be ok?

 

[HighViscosity]

Yes anything 0w-x or 5w-x will be fine.

 

[440Magnum]

My thoughts, for whatever they're worth:

1) Sampling method is suspect, so re-sample at a shorter interval before panicking, changing oils, upping the viscosity out of spec for the engine, or otherwise throwing in so many other variables that you don't get a straight answer. Be methodical and apply scientific method. Change ONE thing at a time during diagnosis. Run the SAME oil in the SAME grade again and sample at 1500 or 2000 miles, see if the numbers look different. I prefer sampling by sucking oil out through the dipstick tube with a syringe and a section of hard vacuum line because it avoids getting sediments off the bottom of the pan. Always sample right after a good long run up to full temperature, highway driving if possible.

2) Vibration in gear under load in a narrow RPM range could be engine/transmission mounts! Don't forget the "duh!" stuff. Its not likely a really loose bearing or you'd HEAR it.

3) Cam position sensor on the 3.5 is COMPLETELY external to the engine- its in the timing belt case, no oil exposure whatsoever.

 

[2k05gt]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
My thoughts, for whatever they're worth:

1) Sampling method is suspect, so re-sample at a shorter interval before panicking, changing oils, upping the viscosity out of spec for the engine, or otherwise throwing in so many other variables that you don't get a straight answer. Be methodical and apply scientific method. Change ONE thing at a time during diagnosis. Run the SAME oil in the SAME grade again and sample at 1500 or 2000 miles, see if the numbers look different. I prefer sampling by sucking oil out through the dipstick tube with a syringe and a section of hard vacuum line because it avoids getting sediments off the bottom of the pan. Always sample right after a good long run up to full temperature, highway driving if possible.

2) Vibration in gear under load in a narrow RPM range could be engine/transmission mounts! Don't forget the "duh!" stuff. Its not likely a really loose bearing or you'd HEAR it.

3) Cam position sensor on the 3.5 is COMPLETELY external to the engine- its in the timing belt case, no oil exposure whatsoever.



Thanks for your Reply..
You were right on with this. I checking out the engine today and I grabbed the engine and started shaking it and sure enough it was a bad engine mount... after 6 hours I got it replaced what a PITA...
I got more sample bottles from Blackstone today so I will have the oil checked out as soon as I hit 3000 miles.
I am going with the insite that the CAM Sensor could have caused the excessive wear due to it failing, after I replace the engine mounts the car ran so much better no vibration and it felt like it had more power.

Thanks guys you are the best...

 

[Jim Allen]

I'd advise the OP to turn down the volume a little on all the "chicken-littling" he's reading here, take a deep breath and await the results of another sample at 4K miles. Taken properly, I might add. All the while, be alert for any trouble. Maybe switch cars with the wife for a while (and let her give yours a "stress test ( : < ).

Bear in mind that switching brands/types of oil will not deliver an immediately accurate second UOA either and may obscure some things you'd like to know. It's not likely it's the oil brand or the viscosity causing this problem (assuming there is one). Trending is key and one UOA does not tell much of a tale. Other than the metals, I don't see a whole lot wrong with the oil. Remember the results are in PARTS PER MILLION and sampling errors can make a huge difference when look upon in that microscopic realm. I'm with Gary on this in thinking the MOST LIKELY cause is something like a sampling error.

In my decades as an ASE master tech, I learned that sometimes you have to let a problem develop before it is diagnosable. I doubt there will be a major, sudden failure without any warning. The car will let you know.

BTW, detonation problems are usually accompanied by excessive aluminum.

 

[addyguy]

Originally Posted By: 2k05gt
Originally Posted By: HighViscosity

To the original poster, have you ever had the throttle body cleaned? When the car is warm, in gear, and the A/C is on, does the car shake more than it used to, or seem to idle too low? Assuming the car has had regular oil changes in the past, this is the only cause I can think of, along with the more likely possibility that it's due to a manufacturing defect. These defects tend to be metalurgical in nature, as many parts are optically inspected with computers.

Can you tell us anything else about that higher rpm vibration, like when it started, is it worse cold or hot, has it been progressive, what rpm's is it noticeable, does it happen in other gears at that rpm? The more clues you can give us the better chance we have of diagnosing it remotely.


Last Month I used Throttle body cleaner to try to see what the vibration was, I cleaned the heck out of it, it was oily, I also cleaned the spark plugs with the cleaner and some brake clean as well, I ran out of the throttle body cleaner. the vibration is most noticable at 3K and warm. I would say always in heavy load situations like going up a hill, BTW that is when the Cam Position sensor went, she was going up a hill and the engine just shuttered and quit.

She was never regular about changing the oil, I started doing it in the past 2 years, before that she would ignore the change oil message for a few months until she could stop in a jiffy jube to get it done. What got me doing it for her was when I asked her when the message come one and she said june..... and it was october. now I monitor it closer ans I change it when I do my car and truck, I have oil changing weekends, lots of fun, my son comes over to get his done and it's a blast.... not..

Oh Crabby Paddies, I just remembered.. I put 6-8 oz of marvels mystery oil in the crank case that day, could that have any effect? I totally forgot about that.

Originally Posted By: Geonerd

Does she hammer on the car straight out of the driveway? Loading or wildly revving a stone cold engine is not a kind thing to do.


She never lets it warm up, she just goes.. Always in a hurry like most working moms.

The more I think about this UOA I should not have tested it with all that went wrong with the car last month, I thought I would kill two birds with one stone and do my car and hers. Big Mistake


Guys, did anyone read this???

He used TB cleaner, MMO, the car was neglected previously, and is driven hard.

Results aren't bad considering all that.....car is neglected and beat on, so I don't think we should be too concerned about what is happening to it....

 

[Jim Allen]

Yeah, good catch addguy!

 

[FZ1]

Both the PP and M1 EP have greater density than the regular M1, so that's a good call. You could try 5k again for comparasion. Try 4k on the following change if metals stay up.

 

[FZ1]

Both the PP and M1 EP have greater density than the regular M1, so that's a good call. You could try 5k again for comparasion. Try 4k on the following change if metals stay up.

 

[JimPghPA]

You recently changed the oil. Was that oil used in hot weather? If so what has the up-keep been regarding the cooling system? If your wife did no pay attention to an oil light, she might not pay attention to any warning of over-heating. Oil thins out when being used in a severely over-heated engine. That could result in the oil not providing the desired protection, hence the extra wear that shows up in the oil. This is just a guess but if you have 80K miles on a 2004 Chrysler 300M you probably should have had the cooling system completely flushed and refilled with new fluid a few years ago. You probably should find out what the best radiator shop is and have them flush the engine, then pull the radiator clean internals if possible, or re-core if not, and put it back in with new 50/50 mix.

BTW in the past I have ALWAYS had the water pump seal go bad within 6 months (usually within 3 months) after flushing an engine. Got to the point that I just have the water pump done by the rad shop when they have the rad out. Saves some money by not loosing fluid to do the pump a few months later.

If you have not ever had the cooling system flushed and refilled in that vehicle I would seriously consider having it done by the end of April before the hot weather arrives.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Even Redline first time UOA wouldnot spikeit this bad with all the cleaning it does so I am reluctant to put it on the oil change.

I agree that sometimes you have to let the problem develop before you can get a good DNX without tearing into the engine.Same thing is oftenthe case with the human body often the symptoms have to multiply and get worse before anyone has a clue what is wrong with you.

 

[Cory]

Having owned 3 300Ms myself and plenty of UOAs, you need to visit our club. Should have the latest results of my last UOA by next week. Otherwise as noted in my signature, I usually go 12K miles on our oil. Though we are primarily driving on the freeway.

www.300mclub.org

 

[synthetic_crazy]

Try Castrol Edge 5w-30, we are currently running it in our Toyota Avalon with low wear numbers despite some shearing. Either that or try some Pennzoil Ultra; I am running it in my Corolla and am pleased with its performance so far.