2006 Tundra, Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, 10K miles M1 filter

[btanchors]

Hello everyone,

Here is UOA Number 10, with particle counts and TBN. Note that this UOA is the same "batch" of oil, as well as the same oil filter, as was reported on July 23, 2009, only now, I have taken that oil/filter combination out to 10K miles. Here are my comments - I welcome yours as well.

1) Clearly we see an example here of how non-linear the decrease in TBN is. The first UOA on this batch of oil had 5,017 miles on it. This UOA added another 5,011 to this oil, almost exactly double the amount, yet the TBN went down only slightly more than one point.

2) Interesting how the wear metals increased only slightly, not double the level of before. Looks like Iron and Copper are the two primary wear metals here.

3) Not sure what to make of the significant increase in Silicon. The first air filter I changed on this vehicle was at about 35K miles, and it looked like it could easily have gone further - it wasn't that dirty. So far, this one only has about 20K on it so it shouldn't need changing yet. I don't want to open the air filter box while I am in the middle of an interval - My theory is doing so may release some bits of sand/grit which could affect the results.

4) So much for the theory that the oil filter should get more efficient in filtering as it gets older - the oil is clearly dirtier than the July UOA, although I am happy to see total solids stayed the same at 0.3.

I installed a Mobil 1 M1-209 filter, and a fresh batch of Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, and again plan to take samples at both 5K and 10K miles - we'll see how the Mobil 1 filter does out to 10K miles.

 

[MarkC]

" Not sure what to make of the significant increase in Silicon. The first air filter I changed on this vehicle was at about 35K miles, and it looked like it could easily have gone further - it wasn't that dirty. So far, this one only has about 20K on it so it shouldn't need changing yet. I don't want to open the air filter box while I am in the middle of an interval - My theory is doing so may release some bits of sand/grit which could affect the results."

I don't know if it affected the silicon or not, but I've been told by someone who knows this stuff that you should change your air filter every 8-10000 miles, no matter what you think it looks like. This probably has more to do with fuel dilution than silicon, I guess.

 

[FZ1]

Very interesting,as always. Thanks for your time and expense. I never open the airbox without a replacement filter on hand. I have have had various results on the dirt in my filter with the same apparent driving. Gonna change my AF at 2 years and 18k this time. Very nice motor.

 

[deven]

If this is not trending than nothing is. Great job and the wear metals look great. That 4.7L V8 sure shows some low wear numbers! Thanks for all the data.

I was looking at the particle count data. All the number data at every point are higher than the last UOA particle count. I was thinking they would be lower as the filter gets more efficient as you put more miles on the oil filter. Maybe a little bit of bypass going on??? Just thinking out loud.

 

[dmiko]

Doesn't it look like the silicon went down (per mile driven)? 24 ppm at 10K is 12ppm per 5K.
In all the previous UOAs (each 5K interval) you can see that the silicon was going down up to/including the one on 05/04/09. Perhaps the air filter gets better at filtration as it loads up (as seen in some white papers). We shouln't change the AF too soon - it is bad for the engine and bad for environment (landfills).

 

[dmiko]

Doesn't it look like M1 oil filter filters better than "fancy" Amsoil? I wonder how well PureOne would do...

 

[ctc]

Originally Posted By: dmiko
We shouln't change the AF too soon - it is bad for the engine and bad for environment (landfills).


tsk tsk

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
4) So much for the theory that the oil filter should get more efficient in filtering as it gets older - the oil is clearly dirtier than the July UOA, although I am happy to see total solids stayed the same at 0.3.


I don't see it that way. Consider that out of all the numbers you can quantify (or not) on a linear manner, particles counts/accumulations (however flawed/weak/whatever/however they're viewed with the pore blockage method) should be 1:1 linear in increase at the same level of filtration. Double the introduction of material ..double the accumulations.

Clearly you don't have double the particle numbers in the respective size ranges.

I expect "50% to the goal line" like reductions for the M1. This should continue to the point that the filter reaches some level of saturation where loading makes full flow filtration difficult. You may not continue the parallel experiment that long.

I'd be keeping the used filters so that a 20k filter test can be done on 10k oil tests. I don't know if you're willing to do a 20k OCI.

Thanks for your continued contribution with this side by side comparison.

 

[FZ1]

Remedial reading?

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: dmiko
Doesn't it look like M1 oil filter filters better than "fancy" Amsoil? I wonder how well PureOne would do...


Over a 5k and 10k test, perhaps. I would expect PureOne to do well too.

The problem will be getting any further mileage beyond 10k to see where the M1 (or PureOne) runs out of steam. His TBN with this product doesn't appear to have the moxie to go to 15k.

Naturally, while the EaO is a "fancy" filter ..we are comparing it to a lowball and lowly M1 ..which means that it's truly a champion in terms of dimes to dollars. A true David to Goliath conflict.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: dmiko
Doesn't it look like M1 oil filter filters better than "fancy" Amsoil? I wonder how well PureOne would do...
You can't compare the filters with a 5,000 mile oil change interval,the Amsoil is a loooong life filter designed to last maaaaaaaaaaaaany miles. 5,000 mile oil and filter changed with any proper speced oil will allow the engine to outlast the ownership of the vehicle.

 

[Steve S]

10,000 mile oil change interval will be a piece of cake. Why uoa at 5,000?

 

[Gary Allan]

I think it was the desire to track the progression on the particle counts and that he was under warranty (irrc).

Outside of the filter comparison, there's no reason to do that many UOA's ..maybe TBN.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Great UOA. I like to point out for those that think M1 cause's high iron to find a fault in this UOA with regards to iron levels!

I agree with Pab's on the oil filter though. 10K is about the make one can push most OTC oil filter's if you actualy want good filtration. To get past 10-15K miles it takes a really good filter and plenty of capacity. You would probably need to change the filter out at 10k and top off if you wanted to use OTC filters and ush the oil change interval up. If the filter is easy to reach I always prefill my oil filter's if I have do any gynastic though withthe filter to get it in place then I do not prime them first.

If you are other wise happy with the results that PureOne is giving I would consider trying a larger PureOne. a PH8A sized PureOne should fit on that easily depending on how much width the filter adapater has. That would be about 1 and 1/2 times longer then what you currently running and it is about 30% larger in diamter which means more filter media and slightly larger capacity. I ran this size flter on many different Toyota Trucks over the year and Land Cruiser's.

 

[Petrou]

Originally Posted By: btanchors
Hello everyone,

Here is UOA Number 10, with particle counts and TBN. Note that this UOA is the same "batch" of oil, as well as the same oil filter, as was reported on July 23, 2009, only now, I have taken that oil/filter combination out to 10K miles. Here are my comments - I welcome yours as well.

1) Clearly we see an example here of how non-linear the decrease in TBN is. The first UOA on this batch of oil had 5,017 miles on it. This UOA added another 5,011 to this oil, almost exactly double the amount, yet the TBN went down only slightly more than one point.

2) Interesting how the wear metals increased only slightly, not double the level of before. Looks like Iron and Copper are the two primary wear metals here.

3) Not sure what to make of the significant increase in Silicon. The first air filter I changed on this vehicle was at about 35K miles, and it looked like it could easily have gone further - it wasn't that dirty. So far, this one only has about 20K on it so it shouldn't need changing yet. I don't want to open the air filter box while I am in the middle of an interval - My theory is doing so may release some bits of sand/grit which could affect the results.

4) So much for the theory that the oil filter should get more efficient in filtering as it gets older - the oil is clearly dirtier than the July UOA, although I am happy to see total solids stayed the same at 0.3.

I installed a Mobil 1 M1-209 filter, and a fresh batch of Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, and again plan to take samples at both 5K and 10K miles - we'll see how the Mobil 1 filter does out to 10K miles.

that air filter well all air filters need to be changed 12000 miles even if they dont look bad they are dirty. Just WMOI and what i have seen as mechanic

 

[buster]

John, it is a Toyota.

 

[Amkeer]

Nice report! Thanks for taking the time to do this and share your results.

 

[ericthepig]

OP stated that TBN is non-linear. Maybe, maybe not. You can't discern linear vs. non-linear from two data pts.

Meanwhile, thanks for the report! Interesting read.

 

[btanchors]

ericthepig,

It was actually three data points. The initial TBN starts at 10.5, according to the VOA I had performed by the same lab (Blackstone). From all the UOAs I performed at the 5K interval, the smallest decline was 6.0 points (10.5 to 4.5). The difference at the 10K interval was 4.5 to 2.8, which is only a difference of 1.7 over the second 5K miles (5K to 10K miles).

So, from 0-5K, the drop was (in the smallest case) 6 points. The drop from 5K to 10K was (in the largest case) 1.7 points.

As I said, I do plan to perform UOAs at the next 5K and 10K miles, using the M1-209 filter. After that, I plan to give the Purolator Pure One filter a try.

 

[buster]

TBN's on PDS generally use ASTM D2896. Most labs use D4739. D2896 usually run 2 pts higher. Keep that in mind.