Windmills = jobs lost

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Subsidizing renewable energy in the U.S. may destroy two jobs for every one created if Spain’s experience with windmills and solar farms is any guide.

For every new position that depends on energy price supports, at least 2.2 jobs in other industries will disappear, according to a study from King Juan Carlos University in Madrid.

In Spain, where wind turbines provided 11 percent of power demand last year, generators earn rates as much as 11 times more for renewable energy compared with burning fossil fuels.

The premiums paid for solar, biomass, wave and wind power - - which are charged to consumers in their bills -- translated into a $774,000 cost for each Spanish “green job” created since 2000, said Gabriel Calzada, an economics professor at the university and author of the report.

“The loss of jobs could be greater if you account for the amount of lost industry that moves out of the country due to higher energy prices,” he said in an interview.

Spain’s Acerinox SA, the nation’s largest stainless-steel producer, blamed domestic energy costs for deciding to expand in South Africa and the U.S., according to the study.

“Microsoft and Google moved their servers up to the Canadian border because they benefited from cheaper energy there,” said the professor of applied environmental economics.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a2PHwqAs7BS0
 
By law, Michigan must soon produce 10% of their electricity from renewable sources. If the article is correct, this will only hasten the already existing manufacturing exodus from Michigan.
 
Windmills are very prophetic. Our Congress can joust at them between those puffs of the long ones with no name on them. John--Las Vegas.
 
I guess we can all wait for the magic box to give us cheap energy. Meanwhile we can keep on course for the cliff of total global dysfunction just to maintain some purpose for being alive.

Let's get the depletion over with so we'll have no choice by idle even more of our population AT SOME TIME IN THE FUTURE.

We always need to be forced to deal with real issues.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I guess we can all wait for the magic box to give us cheap energy. Meanwhile we can keep on course for the cliff of total global dysfunction just to maintain some purpose for being alive.

Let's get the depletion over with so we'll have no choice by idle even more of our population AT SOME TIME IN THE FUTURE.

We always need to be forced to deal with real issues.


That is exactly the attitude of some of the Peak Oil crowd. You may want to get a support group together with them to plan for the foreseen apocalypse they predict and cannot come soon enough. Their persuasion can be found over on the peak oil forums.

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It is kinda like a celebration of glutinous consumption for the purpose of assuring the extinction of humankind ..and I guess taking as many species as possible out in the process "while you're there".
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I don't know that any of the government boondoggles create or destroy jobs mostly moving them around, robbing Peter to pay Paul. Of course if Paul is subject to the Davis-Bacon act, you may have to rob several Peters.
 
Originally Posted By: labman
I don't know that any of the government boondoggles create or destroy jobs mostly moving them around, robbing Peter to pay Paul. Of course if Paul is subject to the Davis-Bacon act, you may have to rob several Peters.


I agree. I really don't see how one dollar spent in an economy changes when spent elsewhere in the same economy.

I mean, you can always throw it in the street or give it to wealthy people to invest since they're too poor to do it otherwise.
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I think it's nice of Michigan to force renewable (and expensive) energy on itself. It leaves more of the cheaper fossil fuel available for the rest of the country.
 
I guess you could wait a while and be flatfooted when it's mandated nation wide. Take the hit now and be in on the ground floor in avoided costs.

..but we both know that even 10% will just be the beginning ..since we both know that 10% isn't going to amount to squat when 2000% needs to be there ..eventually.

We can keep the same party going for awhile.

Now you're looking for the "fairness" that is allegedly an unrealistic expectation from life. America should not be competing with itself for market share of a declining average slice of pie. It should be competing with the world to retain what it has for its citizen's future needs.

We've inflated "needs" to some pretty luxurious levels.
 
THing is, 10% is about the max you can do before you start running out of renewable resources to tap with current tech.
What are they going to do when they mandate additional renewables and are told, well you now have a choice, feed your people or give up the land to meet your mandate for "green" energy and let a portion of the population starve.

Maybe it isn't exactly 10%, but the number is fairly low before that choice comes up.

"But if you put the demand for the technology, it will improve."
Maybe so, maybe not, what do they do when it doesn't improve to meet their self imposed timelines? I guess hey will have to reassess and change the mandates or change the timelines.

"We've inflated "needs" to some pretty luxurious levels."

Yes indeed we surely have. I don't doubt with real urban planning, instead of the joke that we've lived with for the past 50 years, a 10% realized total energy saving could be had right there. Further Industrial efficiency process improvements across the board and not having every single want catered to could add real energy savings as well I bet.
Maybe this is just what it takes to get every single entity on board, otherwise it would be business as usual for the majority.
 
Suburban sprawl is ridiculously wasteful. Everyone has to drive everywhere to do anything. Urban environments are far more efficient use of space and energy.

The expensive part of it is that you can't raze a city and just build a new one in its place as your needs dictate.
 
If it assures a continued existence, sure. People seem to exist in NYC without too much difficulty ..same with Boston, Phila ..etc.

You can spread them out over a bunch of 1/2 - 1 acre lots ..all the asphalt ..all the wire and cable, all the building materials ..all the destroyed open space. All the added driving ..all the added this and that ..blah..blah..blah.

Don't worry, you'll get your chance at being the former copy machine salesman in your duel with The Postman.
 
My brother does financial planning and spends a lot of time traveling to visit farmers in the Midwest. Many of them have new windmills, he says, and none of them are happy. He says he's been told several times by these folks that the companies would come in and offer big money to put up the thing, then go bankrupt, sticking the farmer with a big giant...windmill....
 
A friend of mine has a business repairing whole house generators. In his travels one customer living in the country has a wind mill generator that has the ability to power the entire place. Problem is he hasn't used the wind mill for some time because the maintainence is so costly for the thing he said it's cheaper to go back on the grid. Now he has a $35,000 conversation piece on his properity.
 
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