From my experience cleaning up the seals is all that has been necessary. I would consider running a cleaning dose of ARX, followed by a mineral oil dino rinse, before resorting to oils or additives designed to swell seals. I say this because many times contaminants build up on rotating shafts and the sealing interface, starving the seal from lubrication. This would also hold true for valve stem seals and guides. Polymer seals would like to rebound if they were allowed to do so. At the end of the day if the ARX approach does not get the perfect result, then you may wish to explore swelling alternatives. But this can be a short term gain with long term negative results. But by cleaning the seals and related area first, at least the seal swelling chemistry will perform equally around the circumerence of the problematic seal. Just my 2 cents.
Seal Conditioners?
- Thread starter ZZman
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On the Auto-RX site, is says after the clean and rinse phase, you can go on to using any oil you like, does this include High Mileage oils ??? What impact will it have on the seals then to use HM oils or PAO ? Will it need another treatment in say 30,000k's ?
Auto-rx is a funny case, it goes against what most of us by nature tend to do with oil. Get something robust for a good price.
When doing the RINSE phase of RX you should REALLY keep it a simple oil something with a simple ad pack and not HM or Syn or semi-syn.
Apparently frank "revised" the formula because so many people wanted to use a synthetic during the rinse which you can do but you have to drive longer with the synth during the rinse phase.
IMHO in the very short amount of time the rinse oil is in the car it wouldn't hurt to just let it be a simple dino oil.
However maybe something like a HDEO would be a good choice. But there ya go its my "must have robust cleaning\protection" instinct kicking in. =D
When doing the RINSE phase of RX you should REALLY keep it a simple oil something with a simple ad pack and not HM or Syn or semi-syn.
Apparently frank "revised" the formula because so many people wanted to use a synthetic during the rinse which you can do but you have to drive longer with the synth during the rinse phase.
IMHO in the very short amount of time the rinse oil is in the car it wouldn't hurt to just let it be a simple dino oil.
However maybe something like a HDEO would be a good choice. But there ya go its my "must have robust cleaning\protection" instinct kicking in. =D
I have cheap rebadged Mobil SL/CF that i bought for $15 oz dollars including an oil filter for 6 litres. So yes, i have a simple oil ready to use with my Auro-rx when it arrives. What my question was is on the site, is says not to use HM oils as they swell seals etc, but then says after the clean and rinse phase you can start using them, including any oil, synthetics. I just wanted to know how that works, does the Auto-Rx condition the seal so it works with any oil etc etc. Goes against what they say.
Maybe it is more difficult for ARX to clean the seals if the host oil is trying to swell the seals?
After the seals are cleaned by ARX, maybe the ARX folks don't care what you do to them? They've accomplished their end of the bargain?
After the seals are cleaned by ARX, maybe the ARX folks don't care what you do to them? They've accomplished their end of the bargain?
This is part of the seal application "Leak should stop within the next 3,000 miles. Application is finished when leak stops. Returning to synthetic oil may cause the leak to return"
It,s so much easier follow instructions. No where does it say
use any oil you like.
It,s so much easier follow instructions. No where does it say
use any oil you like.
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http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Corvair_oil.pdf
Frank, the above article was posted in the PCMO section. Good article but some info conflicts with Auto-RX practices in relation to the maintenance dose of certain additives.
I will make the correction as Auto-RX does say that synthetic and Hm oil can be used with the maintenance dose.
Frank, the above article was posted in the PCMO section. Good article but some info conflicts with Auto-RX practices in relation to the maintenance dose of certain additives.
I will make the correction as Auto-RX does say that synthetic and Hm oil can be used with the maintenance dose.
Q: I've heard that synthetic oil can adversely affect my seals. Does Auto-Rx® help?
A: We believe that high-mileage engines using synthetic/semi-synthetic or high mileage oil weaken the seal material and it loses its pliability.
In e-mails to people who have rear main oil seal leaks and want to use Auto-Rx® to try and stop them, we tell them to use non-synthetic oil to firm up the seal material after Auto-Rx® has cleansed it, as chemistry in non-synthetic oil makes seals harden just right to effect a tight seal. After your leak is stopped, you can use any oil you want
We question why anyone would want to go back to a chemistry that will start the process of seal material degradation all over again. A way around this problem is to use 3 ounces of Auto-Rx® with each oil change after a rear main seal leak is stopped. Now you are protecting seal degradation and can use synthetic, semi-synthetic, or high mileage oil without creating a new leak problem.
But is does say it in the previous paragraph you can use any oil.
A: We believe that high-mileage engines using synthetic/semi-synthetic or high mileage oil weaken the seal material and it loses its pliability.
In e-mails to people who have rear main oil seal leaks and want to use Auto-Rx® to try and stop them, we tell them to use non-synthetic oil to firm up the seal material after Auto-Rx® has cleansed it, as chemistry in non-synthetic oil makes seals harden just right to effect a tight seal. After your leak is stopped, you can use any oil you want
We question why anyone would want to go back to a chemistry that will start the process of seal material degradation all over again. A way around this problem is to use 3 ounces of Auto-Rx® with each oil change after a rear main seal leak is stopped. Now you are protecting seal degradation and can use synthetic, semi-synthetic, or high mileage oil without creating a new leak problem.
But is does say it in the previous paragraph you can use any oil.
You can use any oil unless you develop a leak.In that case go to a Group111 and Auto-Rx. Follow application instructions to stop seal leak.
If your running Synthetic oil (after Auto-Rx Cleaning) and sludge is not the issue, go on Auto-Rx Maintenance Dose.
If your running Synthetic oil (after Auto-Rx Cleaning) and sludge is not the issue, go on Auto-Rx Maintenance Dose.
100,000 mile engines and above that have run synthetic since they were bought and don,t have a history of at least 1 seal leak step forward.
The additive package in synthetic oils is called a "complex additive package" it is IMO chemical overkill.
The additive package in Group11 or 111 oils is called a "simple additive package" safe easy on seals and does it,s job.
100,000 mile engines and above that have run conventinal oil since they were bought and never had a seal leak step forward.
Hope this post creates interest.
The additive package in synthetic oils is called a "complex additive package" it is IMO chemical overkill.
The additive package in Group11 or 111 oils is called a "simple additive package" safe easy on seals and does it,s job.
100,000 mile engines and above that have run conventinal oil since they were bought and never had a seal leak step forward.
Hope this post creates interest.
Well I am going on 180K on (1) toyo, (1), 4-runner with 125K and (2) dodges with over 150K and no seal leaks using Amsoil. Some of my own personl autos.
I HAD 2 toyo 1994 corolla's that had dino since mile day 1 and still are going (sold to friends) but leaked like mad when I sold them for $800.
My point is that unless you know the seal material, etc I would not blindly say it [synthetic) causes seal leaks unless you have tested every material out there. YMMV
I HAD 2 toyo 1994 corolla's that had dino since mile day 1 and still are going (sold to friends) but leaked like mad when I sold them for $800.
My point is that unless you know the seal material, etc I would not blindly say it [synthetic) causes seal leaks unless you have tested every material out there. YMMV
At he end of the day, running a simple dino oil with no esters in the rinse phase and a sucessive OCI has proved to be the ticket for severely reducing or completely stoping cylinderical seal leaks, such as front and rear main seals, as well as cam seals. Once again I must state that dino oil with no esters tends to shrink down the seal on the rotating shaft, be it a crank or cam. Over 500 success stories tell me so beyond my own personal experience.
You are bring ARX into the situation. I am going "only" on what was posted about synthetic oil "so called issues"; weaken etc (posted below):
Q: I've heard that synthetic oil can adversely affect my seals. Does Auto-Rx® help?
A: We believe that high-mileage engines using synthetic/semi-synthetic or high mileage oil weaken the seal material and it loses its pliability.
Q: I've heard that synthetic oil can adversely affect my seals. Does Auto-Rx® help?
A: We believe that high-mileage engines using synthetic/semi-synthetic or high mileage oil weaken the seal material and it loses its pliability.
I think the more important thing to note is that many seal failures have more to do with dirt and deposits forming at the rotating shaft seal lip interface than anything else. Journal ends are a primary collection zone for deposits, especially dirt.
Think of it as a dead end, just like when you drive your car to the end of a dead end street. It takes some effort to turn the car around to get headed back towards logistic correction. Seals leak due to either wear which may be caused by contaminants that build at this shaft seal lip interface. Likely causing extra heat that polymer seals don't particularly fair well from. But treated early show remarkable resolve in trying to find original polymer memory, if allowed to do so.
My thinking is just opposite of your question. Take away your contaminants and run dino oil that will actually tend to shrink or stiffen the seal against the rotating seal to greatly aid or solve the leaking seal. Give the newly refurbished seal so time to find its polymer memory before switching back to synthetics, or HM oils.
Dargo, you have likely not been the unfortunate one to deal with the expensive seal replacement phenomenon for only two basic reasons. You run good quality motor oils and you don't extend their useful life. You also strike me as the type of guy that keeps your units in tune and make sure that all the motor breathing systems are performing adequately. Clean motors are far less likely to develpoe seal problems. What say you?
Think of it as a dead end, just like when you drive your car to the end of a dead end street. It takes some effort to turn the car around to get headed back towards logistic correction. Seals leak due to either wear which may be caused by contaminants that build at this shaft seal lip interface. Likely causing extra heat that polymer seals don't particularly fair well from. But treated early show remarkable resolve in trying to find original polymer memory, if allowed to do so.
My thinking is just opposite of your question. Take away your contaminants and run dino oil that will actually tend to shrink or stiffen the seal against the rotating seal to greatly aid or solve the leaking seal. Give the newly refurbished seal so time to find its polymer memory before switching back to synthetics, or HM oils.
Dargo, you have likely not been the unfortunate one to deal with the expensive seal replacement phenomenon for only two basic reasons. You run good quality motor oils and you don't extend their useful life. You also strike me as the type of guy that keeps your units in tune and make sure that all the motor breathing systems are performing adequately. Clean motors are far less likely to develpoe seal problems. What say you?
Just purchased a sailboat with a 21 year old Westerbeke Diesel 3 cyl 21 hp motor. The rear seal leaked so much we were worried about legal action by the environmental police since it was finding its way into the bilge and then into the water.
I put in about 2/3 of qt of Rear Seal sealent and 3 qts of marine oil into the crankcase, with a new filter, and I can report that we now don't get a drop out of the rear seal. I am very pleased that this off the shelf product actually performed as advertised. Hope this is a long term cure.
I put in about 2/3 of qt of Rear Seal sealent and 3 qts of marine oil into the crankcase, with a new filter, and I can report that we now don't get a drop out of the rear seal. I am very pleased that this off the shelf product actually performed as advertised. Hope this is a long term cure.
Originally Posted By: RFIRE
Just purchased a sailboat with a 21 year old Westerbeke Diesel 3 cyl 21 hp motor. The rear seal leaked so much we were worried about legal action by the environmental police since it was finding its way into the bilge and then into the water.
I put in about 2/3 of qt of Rear Seal sealent and 3 qts of marine oil into the crankcase, with a new filter, and I can report that we now don't get a drop out of the rear seal. I am very pleased that this off the shelf product actually performed as advertised. Hope this is a long term cure.
Hmmm...never heard of this stuff. Might be worth taking a look. Though as of now I have no leaks. In the past I could have used something like this.
Just purchased a sailboat with a 21 year old Westerbeke Diesel 3 cyl 21 hp motor. The rear seal leaked so much we were worried about legal action by the environmental police since it was finding its way into the bilge and then into the water.
I put in about 2/3 of qt of Rear Seal sealent and 3 qts of marine oil into the crankcase, with a new filter, and I can report that we now don't get a drop out of the rear seal. I am very pleased that this off the shelf product actually performed as advertised. Hope this is a long term cure.
Hmmm...never heard of this stuff. Might be worth taking a look. Though as of now I have no leaks. In the past I could have used something like this.
It was Bar's Rear Main Seal Repair. It gets my seal of approval.
MolaKule
Staff member
I suspect the repair is only temporary. It sounds like the little diesel has a badly worn seal.
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