How about a compromise. On my '08 Honda Civic EX auto, I'm planning to just swap the oil filter out at around 2500-3000 miles in case there are any chunks circulating, and I'll top it off with Honda 5w20. Then, at the electronically indicated first OCI, I'll swap to the Amsoil XL 5w20 synthetic.
Why NOT change factory fill early?
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i dont know where the peeps come up with this. wear is lower during break-in? wear is more during the first 3k of the OCI? leave all the nasty metals froma new engine in with broken down oil from wear-in shear and assembly lube in the full factory OCI?
im sure honda has its reasons for saying that and i would be happy to discuss but i dont think it has anything to do with it being bad to change early if done properly.
the only reason i can possibly come up with to leave it in is the metal particles are abrasive and may actually clearance the parts faster(wear out too!) but that is really stretching it.
i think most of the peeps that tell you to do this have never seen what a factory fill looks like at 1K.
im sure honda has its reasons for saying that and i would be happy to discuss but i dont think it has anything to do with it being bad to change early if done properly.
the only reason i can possibly come up with to leave it in is the metal particles are abrasive and may actually clearance the parts faster(wear out too!) but that is really stretching it.
i think most of the peeps that tell you to do this have never seen what a factory fill looks like at 1K.
Originally Posted By: CBDFrontier06
There has been a ton of speculation about what's in Honda's factory fill oil
Not really. I changed mine at 1806 miles and had the oil analyzed. It was Regular, high quality ExxonMobil Dino oil with a Moly assembly lube mixed in. There was nothing there of long term benfit, and any other high quality motor oil would do the same job, less any metals that were in the oil from break in.
I changed to Mobil 1 and never looked back.
There has been a ton of speculation about what's in Honda's factory fill oil
Not really. I changed mine at 1806 miles and had the oil analyzed. It was Regular, high quality ExxonMobil Dino oil with a Moly assembly lube mixed in. There was nothing there of long term benfit, and any other high quality motor oil would do the same job, less any metals that were in the oil from break in.
I changed to Mobil 1 and never looked back.
This issue is one I have consulted with many technical specialists about and afterwards have adopted a policy of changing out ALL drivetrain lubricants on a new vehicle in the following order:
1. engine 1000 miles (heaviest debris in oil by 1000)
2. diffs 500 miles (heaviest debris at 500 as 95% of breakin has occurred)
3. tcase 500 miles ( 95% of breakin has occurred)
4. trans: 20-30,000 miles complete change w filter.
5. power steer: 50,000 don't ask me why nobody cares about the p/s.
Note: On diffs & tcase I have several experts who believe once you get the breakin debris out of the gearsets a good synthetic gear oil (Amsoil, GM Grapejuice, Redline) should last at least 100k unless you tow.
1. engine 1000 miles (heaviest debris in oil by 1000)
2. diffs 500 miles (heaviest debris at 500 as 95% of breakin has occurred)
3. tcase 500 miles ( 95% of breakin has occurred)
4. trans: 20-30,000 miles complete change w filter.
5. power steer: 50,000 don't ask me why nobody cares about the p/s.
Note: On diffs & tcase I have several experts who believe once you get the breakin debris out of the gearsets a good synthetic gear oil (Amsoil, GM Grapejuice, Redline) should last at least 100k unless you tow.
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FWIW: My wifes toyota came with 1 "free" dealer oil change that they recommended at 1000 miles. We did that and it now has almost 130k on the clock and runs perfect with no oil consumption.
I continue to believe early changing is a good thing. I like to change within the first couple of hundred miles.
Is it necessary? 'dunno'. Does it help? 'maybe' Does it hurt? 'no' Can I afford it? 'Yes'.
Is it necessary? 'dunno'. Does it help? 'maybe' Does it hurt? 'no' Can I afford it? 'Yes'.
Originally Posted By: buster
The simple answer to this topic/question is: Because you don't have to.
I agree with you that you you don't HAVE to change ff early...but, really, for those of us who really enjoy our cars, and enjoy taking care of them - like pretty much everyone here on BITOG - I think it would be silly to not change early.
I'm sure that the vast majority of new cars sold in the US each year (around 16 million if memory is correct) do not get the ff changed early, and most of them probably last a decent life. But, again, I think most of us here want more than mediocrity, so change early and be sure you start your brand new engine off with the best chances for a long service life.
From what I've read here and other places, there is no downside other than the slight cost and slight waste of resources...the upside potential far outweighs the downside potential in my estimation.
The simple answer to this topic/question is: Because you don't have to.
I agree with you that you you don't HAVE to change ff early...but, really, for those of us who really enjoy our cars, and enjoy taking care of them - like pretty much everyone here on BITOG - I think it would be silly to not change early.
I'm sure that the vast majority of new cars sold in the US each year (around 16 million if memory is correct) do not get the ff changed early, and most of them probably last a decent life. But, again, I think most of us here want more than mediocrity, so change early and be sure you start your brand new engine off with the best chances for a long service life.
From what I've read here and other places, there is no downside other than the slight cost and slight waste of resources...the upside potential far outweighs the downside potential in my estimation.
If you keep your car for only the factory warranty or less than 100K miles, I'd say ... who cares. Modern engines are designed to last for the warranty period and an additional factory certified used car warranty period.
Keeping the factory oil in will certainly increase wear. There's pretty much no doubt about that. So, my thought is that if you have a high performance car/engine, or are planning to keep the car for 150K or more miles, then changing out the factory oil early to remove wear particles is a big plus. In iron block engines you get quite a bit of iron particles in the oil during break-in. In Aluminum/Silicon cylinder engines, you get quite a bit of Aluminum and Silicon particles in the oil during break-in. These are good things to remove as quickly as possible.
For those keeping their vehicles for a long time, I think the prudent thing is to change out the factory oil by 1K miles, and then once in between each factory oil change interval, for the 1st 15K to 20K miles.
A clean well-oiled engine is a happy engine.
Keeping the factory oil in will certainly increase wear. There's pretty much no doubt about that. So, my thought is that if you have a high performance car/engine, or are planning to keep the car for 150K or more miles, then changing out the factory oil early to remove wear particles is a big plus. In iron block engines you get quite a bit of iron particles in the oil during break-in. In Aluminum/Silicon cylinder engines, you get quite a bit of Aluminum and Silicon particles in the oil during break-in. These are good things to remove as quickly as possible.
For those keeping their vehicles for a long time, I think the prudent thing is to change out the factory oil by 1K miles, and then once in between each factory oil change interval, for the 1st 15K to 20K miles.
A clean well-oiled engine is a happy engine.
Originally Posted By: Vaca
Originally Posted By: buster
The simple answer to this topic/question is: Because you don't have to.
I agree with you that you you don't HAVE to change ff early...but, really, for those of us who really enjoy our cars, and enjoy taking care of them - like pretty much everyone here on BITOG - I think it would be silly to not change early.
I'm sure that the vast majority of new cars sold in the US each year (around 16 million if memory is correct) do not get the ff changed early, and most of them probably last a decent life. But, again, I think most of us here want more than mediocrity, so change early and be sure you start your brand new engine off with the best chances for a long service life.
From what I've read here and other places, there is no downside other than the slight cost and slight waste of resources...the upside potential far outweighs the downside potential in my estimation.
Don't be so quick to say that changing out early is ok . It is my understanding that some cars with FRM cylinder walls don't break in properly if switched out to synthetic oil to early. So, I can imagine someone going in to have their oil changed early because "it does not do any harm" getting synthetic and then having trouble down the road.
Originally Posted By: buster
The simple answer to this topic/question is: Because you don't have to.
I agree with you that you you don't HAVE to change ff early...but, really, for those of us who really enjoy our cars, and enjoy taking care of them - like pretty much everyone here on BITOG - I think it would be silly to not change early.
I'm sure that the vast majority of new cars sold in the US each year (around 16 million if memory is correct) do not get the ff changed early, and most of them probably last a decent life. But, again, I think most of us here want more than mediocrity, so change early and be sure you start your brand new engine off with the best chances for a long service life.
From what I've read here and other places, there is no downside other than the slight cost and slight waste of resources...the upside potential far outweighs the downside potential in my estimation.
Don't be so quick to say that changing out early is ok . It is my understanding that some cars with FRM cylinder walls don't break in properly if switched out to synthetic oil to early. So, I can imagine someone going in to have their oil changed early because "it does not do any harm" getting synthetic and then having trouble down the road.
look at the vette oil change in the uoa's.
Originally Posted By: IcebergS2000
Don't be so quick to say that changing out early is ok . It is my understanding that some cars with FRM cylinder walls don't break in properly if switched out to synthetic oil to early.
There is almost no difference in the lubrication properties of Synthetics and Dino's . Yes Redline, Motul et. all (Group V ) may offer some better friction characteristics in their base oil.
But short of an engine rebuild there is no problem with changing out to synthetic as soon as you get the new car home. Just an opinion though, which I have practiced.
Don't be so quick to say that changing out early is ok . It is my understanding that some cars with FRM cylinder walls don't break in properly if switched out to synthetic oil to early.
There is almost no difference in the lubrication properties of Synthetics and Dino's . Yes Redline, Motul et. all (Group V ) may offer some better friction characteristics in their base oil.
But short of an engine rebuild there is no problem with changing out to synthetic as soon as you get the new car home. Just an opinion though, which I have practiced.
Because with modern manufacturing, wear metals are low even during break-in mileage. It's simply a waste of time/oil. It won't hurt if you do chose to change it early, but it's simply not necessary. If you break-in your cars hard (lot of wot etc), then it might be worth changing it out around the 3k-5k mile mark. IMO.
+1
+1
Originally Posted By: PT1
FWIW: My wifes toyota came with 1 "free" dealer oil change that they recommended at 1000 miles. We did that and it now has almost 130k on the clock and runs perfect with no oil consumption.
Did they tell you there was an oil change included in this free service? I am only interested because Toyotas and many other makes and models have had 1000 mile/km free services for years which are nothing more than an inspection for fluid leaks. My most recent Toyota included the "free service" and it was still only a fluid level inspection but the salesman still pushed it like it was a selling point.
PS I changed the factory fill of my Toyota at 1000 KM. The Toyota 10W-30 mineral oil is so cheap it hardly cost anything. I changed it again at approx 5000 KM then switched to Mobil 1 10W-30 at first scheduled service.
FWIW: My wifes toyota came with 1 "free" dealer oil change that they recommended at 1000 miles. We did that and it now has almost 130k on the clock and runs perfect with no oil consumption.
Did they tell you there was an oil change included in this free service? I am only interested because Toyotas and many other makes and models have had 1000 mile/km free services for years which are nothing more than an inspection for fluid leaks. My most recent Toyota included the "free service" and it was still only a fluid level inspection but the salesman still pushed it like it was a selling point.
PS I changed the factory fill of my Toyota at 1000 KM. The Toyota 10W-30 mineral oil is so cheap it hardly cost anything. I changed it again at approx 5000 KM then switched to Mobil 1 10W-30 at first scheduled service.
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