Which 2014 cars are without VVT ?

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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Unnecessary complexity is the concern I have. I'm not looking for a new car for myself. I was just curious if it's possible to get a new car without VVT if someone wanted to. The kind of cars I find appealing is the Lexus ES350, Infinity G37, BMW 535, and cars along those lines.

You've got to be kidding. VVT would be the least of my worries when it comes to the cars you listed above.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Common misconception. Those old V-techs were not VVT systems

Doesn't VTEC stand for Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control?
 
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Honda btw has been doing it since 1991 and my 1993 Civic was beyond reliable with it.



Common misconception. Those old V-techs were not VVT systems and should not be be compared to modern VVT systems for reliability.


I don't understand. How is having a separate cam lobe that allows for different timing and lift on the VTEC engines not a VVT system? It's not varied at the cam drive like most systems and it is limited to the 2 or 3 stages of the cam lobes and valves actuated , but it is variable.


Because there can only be one cam profile enabled at the time. That's like comparing a 2 stage furnace to a variable speed furnace and saying that a variable speed furnace should be reliable because 2-stage furnaces were used many years ago. The two aren't comparable in terms of complexity and efficiency.

Simply put v-tec was a stepping stone towards full, modern VVT systems, but it was not a VVT system in terms of the level of complexity and control and the reliability of modern VVT systems should not be drawn from V-Tec's history.
 
At least VVT technology did away with problematic EGR plumbing. EGR is controlled through the VVT function, and the exhaust soot doesn't have to travel through the intact tract to get re-burnt.
 
VVT is a standardised industry term for hydraulic or mechanical variable cam phasing referenceing the crank position - it does not affect lift. Honda vtec uses a separate cam profle that when engaged will allow a different cam lift and phasing(timing) and duration. My FIT has power VTEC on a sohc system and engagment pin can get stuck ON with certain valves causing an idle roll and rough low rpm running and a mpg hit. A stint to near redline often frees up the system again in my experience. Some civic engine use an "economy geared" VTEC that idles one of the two intake valves at low prm low load. Subaru uses a version on the older EJ.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Unnecessary complexity is the concern I have. I'm not looking for a new car for myself. I was just curious if it's possible to get a new car without VVT if someone wanted to. The kind of cars I find appealing is the Lexus ES350, Infinity G37, BMW 535, and cars along those lines.

The G37 definitely has VVT. I have had no problems. Any engine from the simplest to the most complex can be a stinker or a wonderful piece of technology.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
2011 Focus, probably the cut off is around 2010, 2011 for almost all cars. 2012 Elantra Wagon is another one as its the old design compared compared to the sedan.


I was surprised when I bought the car that it did not have some sort of variable valve timing.

One of the last few cars that does not!
 
Originally Posted By: meep

rose colored glasses? I owned a 283. We had to pull it and bore it out .040 at 84,000 due to loss of compression. HUGE ridge on the tops of the cylinders.


I always appreciated the design of the smallblock Chevy, but the implementation was often rotten. Blocks cast from an iron alloy soft as butter compared to what Oldsmobile, Mopar, Ford, Cadillac, and Buick were using is just one example- and led to those huge ridges you found. Chevy (at the time) was the low-end brand at GM, and unlike Ford and Mopar- where engines went from unique by division to corporate by the late 50s- Chevy didn't get the benefit of using the same engine families as the high-end cars. At Mopar, an Imperial got the same big-block engines as a Plymouth Belvedere... but at GM every brand had its own engine families so a Chevy Bel Air got a completely different small v8 than a Buick Skylark got. Generally speaking a Chevy smallblock wouldn't last nearly as long as an Olds or Buick of about the same power output.
 
Originally Posted By: accent2012
VTEC wasn't a true VVT and certainly wasn't the first. Nissan and Toyota came out with the true VVT engines. Just look at the 2JZ.


Its kinda semantics, isn't it? In some ways, VTEC was more than variable valve timing, because it actually changed things like duration and lift as well as valve opening time. What you're calling "VVT" (and most people do...) is really just variable cam timing where the lift profile doesn't change at all, but the entire cam advances or retards relative to the crankshaft.
 
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Oh the days of points, plugs, rotor button, and condensers tuneup kit with 8 plugs,,,20 bucks maybe..


Every 20kmiles. Today, it's what, 4 or 6 plugs every 100k? 120k? No wires, no rotor, no cap.

Quote:
It is really to bad in some ways that cars today are front wheel drive==Why, glad you ask. In another life time,way back in the 40 50 and 60's, you could change out engines reasonably easy. Chevy's old 283 comes to mind, small space needed and it adapted to many different cars then.... old fashion you say! I guess so, there were no computers, way to many belts, aw, but an old fashion 2 bbl or 4 bbl carb or 3 deuces..someone in here remembers those days. Yes, by today's standards those rides were costly to run. The next time you go to a car show, see whats on the lot, 50s / 60s rides, not many 68 Datsuns, there now, was there? Did I mention 3 speed shift on the column? Now, where are my glasses and teeth?


Yeah, but... getting 100k was an accomplishment. Swapping motors was likely required to run a vehicle out to the point where the body was done for. These days, the whole thing likely wears out as a unit. If there is no need to pull the motor--then who cares how hard a job it is?
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: meep

rose colored glasses? I owned a 283. We had to pull it and bore it out .040 at 84,000 due to loss of compression. HUGE ridge on the tops of the cylinders.


I always appreciated the design of the smallblock Chevy, but the implementation was often rotten. Blocks cast from an iron alloy soft as butter compared to what Oldsmobile, Mopar, Ford, Cadillac, and Buick were using is just one example- and led to those huge ridges you found. Chevy (at the time) was the low-end brand at GM, and unlike Ford and Mopar- where engines went from unique by division to corporate by the late 50s- Chevy didn't get the benefit of using the same engine families as the high-end cars. At Mopar, an Imperial got the same big-block engines as a Plymouth Belvedere... but at GM every brand had its own engine families so a Chevy Bel Air got a completely different small v8 than a Buick Skylark got. Generally speaking a Chevy smallblock wouldn't last nearly as long as an Olds or Buick of about the same power output.




I never knew that. In fact, I thought they were all the same since the designs were so similar.

One thing the 283 experienced was that it was never tested or prototyped. It went straight from paper to tooling in efforts to compete with Ford. Ford had a "Chevy killer" coming to market and the execs at chevy knew it. they knew they had to build it and chance it. if they didn't, they feared they were done. if the engine failed, well they tried. So that little 8 came right off the engineer's sketch pad and went to tooling. and it did really well. Pretty impressive, so much of what the engineers got right.
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: accent2012
VTEC wasn't a true VVT and certainly wasn't the first. Nissan and Toyota came out with the true VVT engines. Just look at the 2JZ.


Its kinda semantics, isn't it? In some ways, VTEC was more than variable valve timing, because it actually changed things like duration and lift as well as valve opening time. What you're calling "VVT" (and most people do...) is really just variable cam timing where the lift profile doesn't change at all, but the entire cam advances or retards relative to the crankshaft.


Great technical distinction, we hot rodders have relocated the cams for decades to match the characteristics to the engine the way we liked. But it WAS difficult to change it!

People here still automatically assume a pushrod motor can't compete, that is a sadly ignorant position these days. The new Vette has the lowest center of gravity ever measured due to the compact package a good pushrod design gives the engineers.

I wish I still had my service logs from my fleets in the 70's, 80's, and 90's. Our trucks go a LOT longer in between any services needed, the difference is dramatic. Cars these days are FAR FAR better than they ever were...
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: accent2012
VTEC wasn't a true VVT and certainly wasn't the first. Nissan and Toyota came out with the true VVT engines. Just look at the 2JZ.


Its kinda semantics, isn't it? In some ways, VTEC was more than variable valve timing, because it actually changed things like duration and lift as well as valve opening time. What you're calling "VVT" (and most people do...) is really just variable cam timing where the lift profile doesn't change at all, but the entire cam advances or retards relative to the crankshaft.


You beat me to it. Semantics.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I wish I still had my service logs from my fleets in the 70's, 80's, and 90's. Our trucks go a LOT longer in between any services needed, the difference is dramatic. Cars these days are FAR FAR better than they ever were...


Agreed; I wince when people talk fondly about the first generation Ford Broncos- my dad bought a new V8 in 1973. By 1978 it was rusting everywhere. The steering was beyond lifeless, the brakes were abysmal, and the V8 was anemic AND got horrible fuel economy. Oh yeah- the HVAC was also miserable as well. My 1999 Wrangler is an infinite order of magnitude better- by every metric- power, economy, ride/handling, comfort, reliability, off-road competence... -you name it.

Now, having said all that, I also own two exceptions to the rule- my beloved 1975 02 and 1995 Club Sport; I much prefer either one to any new BMWs save the outgoing 135i, M3 and the current M6 Gran Coupe. They both drive and feel like true BMWs- as opposed to an anesthetized obese Germanic Lexus(AKA: The Ultimate Posing Machines)...
 
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I wish I still had my service logs from my fleets in the 70's, 80's, and 90's. Our trucks go a LOT longer in between any services needed, the difference is dramatic. Cars these days are FAR FAR better than they ever were...


Agreed; I wince when people talk fondly about the first generation Ford Broncos- my dad bought a new V8 in 1973. By 1978 it was rusting everywhere. The steering was beyond lifeless, the brakes were abysmal, and the V8 was anemic AND got horrible fuel economy. Oh yeah- the HVAC was also miserable as well. My 1999 Wrangler is an infinite order of magnitude better- by every metric- power, economy, ride/handling, comfort, reliability, off-road competence... -you name it.

Now, having said all that, I also own two exceptions to the rule- my beloved 1975 02 and 1995 Club Sport; I much prefer either one to any new BMWs save the outgoing 135i, M3 and the current M6 Gran Coupe. They both drive and feel like true BMWs- as opposed to an anesthetized obese Germanic Lexus(AKA: The Ultimate Posing Machines)...


laugh.gif


I do have a soft spot for the old SJ Wagoneers. I know that the current M-class based Grand Cherokee probably has nearly as much interior volume, WAYYY better more precise steering, ride and handling, and the current Hemi produces a bit more torque and probably more than 100hp better than the best pre-smog 4bbl 360, but there is a certain odd coolness to it. Even with the funky vinyl woodgrain.
lol.gif


But back on topic....there is no way the AMC 360 had VVT unless there was a bad problem with the cam sprocket. Then it was unintentional and left you stranded.
crackmeup2.gif
 
Umm your worried about VVT which is 30 year old technology at this point yet are considering a BMW with an 8spd transmission twin turbo I6 and variable steering?

Yet the VVT is a concern? Are you worried about the electric windows breaking as well?

But I'm sure the Idrive will be flawless for the next 20 years!
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Are you worried about the electric windows breaking as well?

He should be. Window regulators often fail on German cars.
smile.gif


Then there is Direct Injection present on the engines of the cars he mentioned. I'd worry about DI more than about VVT.
 
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