What Oil Properties to best protect wife's PD-TDI

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Matt_N

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We own a 06 Jetta TDI with the PD motor. At 65k, the dealer found the #3 injector seal was faulty, and upon further inspection they observed damage to the cylinder bore due to the injector moving around. VW replaced the complete cylinder head under CPO warranty...meaning new injectors, cam, valves...the works.

It's not often you get a "clean slate" on a used vehicle, but this is my opportunity to assure this new cam & head only see quality oils and reasonable OCIs.

Enter a variable I can't control...I'm not the primary driver. The primary driver of this car isn't obsessed with the care of vehicles like I am. To them, the car is a machine and is ready to perform it's task (to drive them) as soon as they turn it on. This means the TDI frequently sees revs beyond 3.5k while the engine is stone cold, and cruising revs beyond 3k if they momentarily forget about 3rd, 4th, or 5th gears. Sometimes, 2nd gear is dispensed with and the engine is momentarily lugged in 3rd. Other times, the engine will see extended warm-up periods of idling in the driveway. It just depends.

I've come to the conclusion that the primary driver is not a variable I can control.
wink.gif


My question is this...what properties should I be looking for in a HDEO that will best work to prevent what the driver is doing to the engine?

I'd planned to run Shell Rotella T6 in this motor because I believe it to have good pumpability at colder temps (min pour point), good oil film strength, reasonably high levels of ZN & P, and all the other reasons people run this oil. However, I'm not sure that I'm considering what properties are most important in an oil for the conditions this oil sees.

Any input is welcome...remember, my question is what properties should I be looking for in an oil that sees this type of service...not your thoughts on what the best OIL is for this application. Tell me what you'd look for in an oil and I'll shop the VOAs for what best suits my budget/availability/brand preference/etc.

Or, is it possible that oil alone can't overcome the physical stresses that this engine will see during daily use. If so, what other controllable variables should I address?

Thanks!
Matt
 
Honestly oil is oil. HDEO's are very robust and are meant to withstand a great deal of punishment and then some. Rotella T6 as you mentioned is very good and stout and will do well to protect the engine. Unfortunately an oil can only do so much and a car that is being used in that type of situation is at the mercy of Murphy's law. It may be fine, or may give out and eat another part of the internals. Nothing is 100%, you can only do what is in your scope of control and T6 is just that along with the other proper maintenance.
 
Originally Posted By: Matt_N
We own a 06 Jetta TDI with the PD motor. At 65k, the dealer found the #3 injector seal was faulty, and upon further inspection they observed damage to the cylinder bore due to the injector moving around. VW replaced the complete cylinder head under CPO warranty...meaning new injectors, cam, valves...the works.

It's not often you get a "clean slate" on a used vehicle, but this is my opportunity to assure this new cam & head only see quality oils and reasonable OCIs.

Enter a variable I can't control...I'm not the primary driver. The primary driver of this car isn't obsessed with the care of vehicles like I am. To them, the car is a machine and is ready to perform it's task (to drive them) as soon as they turn it on. This means the TDI frequently sees revs beyond 3.5k while the engine is stone cold, and cruising revs beyond 3k if they momentarily forget about 3rd, 4th, or 5th gears. Sometimes, 2nd gear is dispensed with and the engine is momentarily lugged in 3rd. Other times, the engine will see extended warm-up periods of idling in the driveway. It just depends.

I've come to the conclusion that the primary driver is not a variable I can control.
wink.gif


My question is this...what properties should I be looking for in a HDEO that will best work to prevent what the driver is doing to the engine?

I'd planned to run Shell Rotella T6 in this motor because I believe it to have good pumpability at colder temps (min pour point), good oil film strength, reasonably high levels of ZN & P, and all the other reasons people run this oil. However, I'm not sure that I'm considering what properties are most important in an oil for the conditions this oil sees.

Any input is welcome...remember, my question is what properties should I be looking for in an oil that sees this type of service...not your thoughts on what the best OIL is for this application. Tell me what you'd look for in an oil and I'll shop the VOAs for what best suits my budget/availability/brand preference/etc.

Or, is it possible that oil alone can't overcome the physical stresses that this engine will see during daily use. If so, what other controllable variables should I address?

Thanks!

go to the search section and look up vw oils,,,there must be a 1000 threads on this,,,this comes all the time about vw oils,,i need an aspirin,,good luck on ur search
Matt
 
CourierDriver, your post was mixed in with the quote.

I fixed it below:

Originally Posted By: CourierDriver

go to the search section and look up vw oils,,,there must be a 1000 threads on this,,,this comes all the time about vw oils,,i need an aspirin,,good luck on ur search
 
Last edited:
You want to look in the owners manual at the oil specs required for that engine . Then buy an oil with the proper specs.
 
I didn't ask "what oil is best for a PD-TDI"... I'm familiar with the VW 505.01 debate, issues with the PD motor, and everything else PD-TDI related that's been discussed on this board.

I asked what OIL PROPERTIES are best suited for the kind of abuse that the primary drive dishes out. A useful answer would be "look for one with the lowest pour point". Referring me to VW oil specs does not address my question.

@hate2work -- Thanks for the link. I read the TDS...what specific properties do you feel best address my issue?? In other words, what about this oil stands out to you??
 
Matt, IMO one of the best properties for the PD engine is high HTHS rating & a good amount of moly, zinc & phosphorus in the additive package which is why I use Schaeffer 9000 in mine. As you well know, Mobil 1 TDT 5w40 is the golden child of PD off-spec oils. Amsoil DEO is also proving itself to work well in PDs, as is Rotella T6.
 
You need as much ZDDP as you can get-the PD motors (as I'm sure you know) EAT cams due to the extreme pressure on the cam due to the injector design & skinny cam lobes-and EP additives are the only way to slow them down. I've actually thought about a TDI for my wife (replacing her xB)-but she never drives far enough to get a diesel fully warmed up.
 
You need good cold flow pumpability when it's cold.

You need high HT/HS dynamic viscosity for the heavily loaded areas.

You need a above average boundary layer of protection for the poorly designed camshaft bearings.

You need a lot of extreme pressure anti-wear for the poorly designed valve-to-lobe issues.

In other words,, stay away from 5W-30 rated VW 505.01 oils which have proven to fail miserably in these engines ever since the first 2004 model showed up.

I'd use Redline 5W-40 in the cool months and maybe Amsoil 15W-40 in the summer months. I'd inspect the camshaft thoroughly at every third oil change and I'd reduce the recommended drain interval from 10,000 miles to 5,000-7,000. I might even consider one of these "ZDDP" additives.

Good luck!
 
Originally Posted By: Matt_N

Enter a variable I can't control...I'm not the primary driver. The primary driver of this car isn't obsessed with the care of vehicles like I am. To them, the car is a machine and is ready to perform it's task (to drive them) as soon as they turn it on. This means the TDI frequently sees revs beyond 3.5k while the engine is stone cold, and cruising revs beyond 3k if they momentarily forget about 3rd, 4th, or 5th gears. Sometimes, 2nd gear is dispensed with and the engine is momentarily lugged in 3rd. Other times, the engine will see extended warm-up periods of idling in the driveway. It just depends.


Matt,

I can't commit on what oil would be best for a PD...but that is what you should research. All these variables are meaningless and let me tell you why.

TDI's don't care if you rev them beyond 3.5k stone cold, they are very overbuilt for their purpose. They don't care if you sat there and hit the rev limiter for fun in neutral(I know I DID!) It is recommended to shift no earlier than 3k when cold, to get the heat going and give that engine some work.

Lugging it when cold is not recommended or warm for the matter but I did keep it in 3rd in city traffic and with light throttle my TDI did just fine. Obviously mashing the go pedal in 3rd while under 2.5k is bad but lightly accelerating was just fine.

Running higher revs than needed will only burn more fuel so I wouldn't worry yourself much over that.

As far as idling is concerned again fuel is only wasted and possibly I higher chance of fuel dilution in the oil.
I think what you should look for in an oil is one that produces better UOA's on an engine that had a previous higher wear rate with a different oil. I personally can't imagine any consumer grade diesel oil wouldn't be up to the task. However I did use GC0w30 in my TDI with very good results. I also gave Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck oil many tries as well. I sadly never got an UOA on it.

You worry too much.
smile.gif
 
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Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
are vw's this much trouble to own,,,mercy bring back the beetle of the 60's, imho..........

No, they're not. People just like to make it that way.

Why? I have no idea...
 
I dont think in the years Ive got left I'm gonna buy a vw. I need American Iron to haul freight, no cam wear, no journals to fail, no turbo to lock up,and all that. I can horse it around, no nampy pamby parts to wear out just to go to the store or to do local running around. I have owned 2 vws, a beetle and an old Dasher and the Dasher was a piece of u know what, they couldn't keep the valve guides or some simple thing right then, so the saga continues on and on , IMHO> But, VW must be doing something right, they are building a new plant in Chattanooga tn so lets see if they get their act together here.
 
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
are vw's this much trouble to own,,,mercy bring back the beetle of the 60's, imho..........


No more trouble than an german car with higher parts cost.

They just need an owner dedicated to maintenance. They are not appliances which never break. For all their quirks I would gladly own one again & again. Except maybe the the new Jetta, they dumbed it down too much to compete with the Civic & Corolla. That will be it's failing.
 
Matt, you nailed it in your original post, as have a couple of the other posts later in this thread. You need 5w40 (good cold flow, good higher operating temp visc) and extreme pressure additives (zinc, etc) to prolong the life of those skinny little cam lobes.

I love the performance from the PD engines as well as the lack of injection pump (and it's various issues). It's too bad the 505.01 [censored] confused everyone for so many years, one of a long line of short-sighted VW 'compromises' with TDIs to get them to conform to emissions targets. Rotella T6 will do the job just fine.
 
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