If you're stuck on synthetic, another option is RP HPS.
What oil for my modified 460?
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Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
Originally Posted By: sasilverbullet
To answer a few sideline questions that have popped up:
1. Those figures are corrected, engine on the dyno.
2. It was dyno'd with that carb and the engine shop said it is more than adequate on the amount of air/fuel.
3. Didn't convert to roller because of cost.
4. I only converted to roller rockers because it was actually cheaper than obtaining new original rocker arms.
5. Engine shop says to run a thick oil.
Right now I'm leaning towards running the Amsoil Z-Rod 20w-50. It seems to have all the right ingredients and I already buy Amsoil for my truck.
There is nothing wrong with Mobil 1 15/50 in that motor. It actually had pretty decent ZDDP, but you could add an ounce of Redline break in additive, per quart.
It doesn't have a lot of zddp.
The amsoil z-rod oil is made for this type of application. I'd skip the additive though. Pm Pablo for the oil and pick his brain on zddp numbers for it.
And I'm certain that motorcycle specific oils are LOADED with zddp,and no friction modifiers,just in case you get stuck and need oil a mc specific oil will do and can be found anywhere.
15/50 Mobil 1 has 1200 phosphorus, 1300 zinc. How much more does he need, in your opinion?
Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
Originally Posted By: sasilverbullet
To answer a few sideline questions that have popped up:
1. Those figures are corrected, engine on the dyno.
2. It was dyno'd with that carb and the engine shop said it is more than adequate on the amount of air/fuel.
3. Didn't convert to roller because of cost.
4. I only converted to roller rockers because it was actually cheaper than obtaining new original rocker arms.
5. Engine shop says to run a thick oil.
Right now I'm leaning towards running the Amsoil Z-Rod 20w-50. It seems to have all the right ingredients and I already buy Amsoil for my truck.
There is nothing wrong with Mobil 1 15/50 in that motor. It actually had pretty decent ZDDP, but you could add an ounce of Redline break in additive, per quart.
It doesn't have a lot of zddp.
The amsoil z-rod oil is made for this type of application. I'd skip the additive though. Pm Pablo for the oil and pick his brain on zddp numbers for it.
And I'm certain that motorcycle specific oils are LOADED with zddp,and no friction modifiers,just in case you get stuck and need oil a mc specific oil will do and can be found anywhere.
15/50 Mobil 1 has 1200 phosphorus, 1300 zinc. How much more does he need, in your opinion?
If your already purchasing amsoil for one vehicle, I say go with the zrod stuff
Originally Posted By: Charlie1935
Seems to me that is a lot of power for a 600 CFM carb on a big 460.
I have a hard time believing those numbers, too.
A tracked-up Boss 429 didn't generate that kind of output (even unofficially), and this one's been neutered down to around 8:1.
Maybe with a blower.
But hey, I'm always open to surprises.
Seems to me that is a lot of power for a 600 CFM carb on a big 460.
I have a hard time believing those numbers, too.
A tracked-up Boss 429 didn't generate that kind of output (even unofficially), and this one's been neutered down to around 8:1.
Maybe with a blower.
But hey, I'm always open to surprises.
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Originally Posted By: Charlie1935
Seems to me that is a lot of power for a 600 CFM carb on a big 460.
I have a hard time believing those numbers, too.
A tracked-up Boss 429 didn't generate that kind of output (even unofficially), and this one's been neutered down to around 8:1.
Maybe with a blower.
But hey, I'm always open to surprises.
The engine shop that did the dyno is a very respected, no-nonsense shop. I thought the numbers were high also but Mr. Janke said the dyno is working fine and those are my corrected numbers.
Originally Posted By: Charlie1935
Seems to me that is a lot of power for a 600 CFM carb on a big 460.
I have a hard time believing those numbers, too.
A tracked-up Boss 429 didn't generate that kind of output (even unofficially), and this one's been neutered down to around 8:1.
Maybe with a blower.
But hey, I'm always open to surprises.
The engine shop that did the dyno is a very respected, no-nonsense shop. I thought the numbers were high also but Mr. Janke said the dyno is working fine and those are my corrected numbers.
I'd believe it. Real torquey engine you got there!
So flat hydraulics on a custom cam, eh? Did you do the springs also?
Can't go wrong with the Zrod, or any above average ZDDP oil designed for this exact purpose. API SM/SN oils wouldn't be my premier choice.
So flat hydraulics on a custom cam, eh? Did you do the springs also?
Can't go wrong with the Zrod, or any above average ZDDP oil designed for this exact purpose. API SM/SN oils wouldn't be my premier choice.
Originally Posted By: Charlie1935
Seems to me that is a lot of power for a 600 CFM carb on a big 460.
That's the FIRST thing that popped out to me too. That much horsepower on a 600CFM? Realistically, that engine needs about 800-850CFM, maybe as high as 900CFM for most horsepower. I highly doubt it is getting those power numbers on the 600CFM Edelbrock (old Carter AFB) carburetor. Smaller carburetors do give better driveability so it will probably work OK for the ops driving habits.
Seems to me that is a lot of power for a 600 CFM carb on a big 460.
That's the FIRST thing that popped out to me too. That much horsepower on a 600CFM? Realistically, that engine needs about 800-850CFM, maybe as high as 900CFM for most horsepower. I highly doubt it is getting those power numbers on the 600CFM Edelbrock (old Carter AFB) carburetor. Smaller carburetors do give better driveability so it will probably work OK for the ops driving habits.
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: Rand
SAE Gross? its very possible.
Yup, corrected, SAE Gross on an engine dyno that's quite likely. SAE NET, with accessories, you'd probably be around 400HP.
Easy way to check: take it to a chassis dyno.
SAE Gross? its very possible.
Yup, corrected, SAE Gross on an engine dyno that's quite likely. SAE NET, with accessories, you'd probably be around 400HP.
Easy way to check: take it to a chassis dyno.
Don't get me wrong. I've seen big numbers from this engine family. Some well north of what the OP is reporting on his. Over 1K HP.
But those had a lot more mods than this one, including overbores approaching 600CID on racing block variants and 1k CFM carbs.
It might be better if the dyno numbers are overoptimistic on this one. As hardy as that old C6 drivetrain is, bone stock original it's not durable enough to handle those kinds of loads long-term.
Hopefully, the rest of the drivetrain has gotten the same attention as the engine.
But those had a lot more mods than this one, including overbores approaching 600CID on racing block variants and 1k CFM carbs.
It might be better if the dyno numbers are overoptimistic on this one. As hardy as that old C6 drivetrain is, bone stock original it's not durable enough to handle those kinds of loads long-term.
Hopefully, the rest of the drivetrain has gotten the same attention as the engine.
For many years, NASCAR engines had a 390 CFM carb and engine builders were able to get 600 or more HP.
That may be why he has a carb that is considered small for his engine, yet he has horsepower that is higher than what the carb suggests.
That may be why he has a carb that is considered small for his engine, yet he has horsepower that is higher than what the carb suggests.
Flow is related to pressure drop, and carburettor "flow" is the flow that is measured at a standard differential pressure, which is entirely arbitrary, as demonstrated by Holley using 1.5" mercury for the 4 barrels, and 3" mercury for the two barrels.
Take a 500cfm 2BBL, and put it on the flow bench at 1.5" mercury, and miraculously it measures around 350cfm...a 600cfm 4 barrel flows 850cfm...so to say that you need "x" cfm per horsepower is wrong, when discussing the bench ratings of carbs.
requiring "x" cfm (well actually lbs) to achieve power ratings is correct and makes sense, but in the realms of carb bench ratings, it doesn't.
So where the restriction between the downward moving piston and the venturis on a carb are determines the total flow that gets to the engine, and the volumetric efficiency that it can achieve...and thus how much air is in the cylinder, how much fuel can then be reacted with it, and how much power comes out.
Take a 500cfm 2BBL, and put it on the flow bench at 1.5" mercury, and miraculously it measures around 350cfm...a 600cfm 4 barrel flows 850cfm...so to say that you need "x" cfm per horsepower is wrong, when discussing the bench ratings of carbs.
requiring "x" cfm (well actually lbs) to achieve power ratings is correct and makes sense, but in the realms of carb bench ratings, it doesn't.
So where the restriction between the downward moving piston and the venturis on a carb are determines the total flow that gets to the engine, and the volumetric efficiency that it can achieve...and thus how much air is in the cylinder, how much fuel can then be reacted with it, and how much power comes out.
My vote would be Mobil1 15w-50 or Castrol 5w-50.
Castrol 0w-40 if it's your daily driver or if fuel economy / cold startup is a concern.
Castrol 0w-40 if it's your daily driver or if fuel economy / cold startup is a concern.
Honestly on these engines I would run a 15W-40 HDEO or a HiPo 20W-50
Especially if you have forged pistons with large clearances. I don't believe that any of the modern high viscosity spread oils are good for this type of engine.
Especially if you have forged pistons with large clearances. I don't believe that any of the modern high viscosity spread oils are good for this type of engine.
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Just talked to the shop that built the engine, they said that I need a 20w-50 for that engine with the temps we have down here.
Right now I'm leaning towards the Amsoil Z-Rod 20W-50.
Right now I'm leaning towards the Amsoil Z-Rod 20W-50.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I'm surprised you didn't convert it roller
Me too.
I'm surprised you didn't convert it roller
Me too.
Originally Posted By: sasilverbullet
Just talked to the shop that built the engine, they said that I need a 20w-50 for that engine with the temps we have down here.
Right now I'm leaning towards the Amsoil Z-Rod 20W-50.
Mobil 1 15w50 is what you want. I am not sure your engine shop knows as much as oil as some of our members but if you need a 50 grade the Mobil 1 15w50 can be purchased at some places in jugs or on sale with specials like 5 quarts plus filter sales for one price.
Redline makes some nice 15w50 and 20w50 oils too. I bet their 10w40 would be more than adequate though.
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=8&pcid=21
Just talked to the shop that built the engine, they said that I need a 20w-50 for that engine with the temps we have down here.
Right now I'm leaning towards the Amsoil Z-Rod 20W-50.
Mobil 1 15w50 is what you want. I am not sure your engine shop knows as much as oil as some of our members but if you need a 50 grade the Mobil 1 15w50 can be purchased at some places in jugs or on sale with specials like 5 quarts plus filter sales for one price.
Redline makes some nice 15w50 and 20w50 oils too. I bet their 10w40 would be more than adequate though.
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=8&pcid=21
Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
15/50 Mobil 1 has 1200 phosphorus, 1300 zinc. How much more does he need, in your opinion?
... Any more ZDDP than that and it starts to pit metal surfaces. Actually Mobil1 0w-40 contains plenty at about 1000 ppm, euro type oil.
15/50 Mobil 1 has 1200 phosphorus, 1300 zinc. How much more does he need, in your opinion?
... Any more ZDDP than that and it starts to pit metal surfaces. Actually Mobil1 0w-40 contains plenty at about 1000 ppm, euro type oil.
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