What is the favorite 2 cycle motorcycle oil

blano · Apr 18, 2003

"Use AMSOIL Synthetic 2-Cycle Injector Oil wherever TC-W3 or API TC oils are specified in water-cooled or air-cooled motors."
More amsoil sales BS. The two applications in question require differant add packages so how can one fluid do both?

Hirev · Apr 22, 2003

I would like to know what the difference other than cost is between Amsoil Pre Mix 100:1 and Amsoil 2000. Some offroad guys say go with the Pre Mix 100:1 and run at 50:1. I'am talking about for use in a 50 HP offroad only dirt bike a KTM 380EXC. Are there any Corrosion problems with any of these 2? Also some where I read not to mix richer than 50:1. What would happen if I ran at 40:1 other than cost? I was told 40:1 would be hard on crank seals.

msparks · Apr 22, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Hirev:
I would like to know what the difference other than cost is between Amsoil Pre Mix 100:1 and Amsoil 2000. Some offroad guys say go with the Pre Mix 100:1 and run at 50:1. I'am talking about for use in a 50 HP offroad only dirt bike a KTM 380EXC. Are there any Corrosion problems with any of these 2? Also some where I read not to mix richer than 50:1. What would happen if I ran at 40:1 other than cost? I was told 40:1 would be hard on crank seals.

Contact me offline for pricing.

With the 100:1 Richer than 50:1 is going to give you power loss, more smoke, hotter running, more carbon.

I would guess because as explained above by twoslick, the 100:1 has a very high flash point, so I would imagine it would be hard to burn all of the oil if your mixing greater than 50:1.

Also If I were you, I'd try differnt mixtures to see what works best. Try 50:1 up to about 80:1. I wouldn't go any higher than that though.

Amsoil has a pretty cool video on the Series 2000 TRO, shows a chainsaw that is held wide open, then 2 differnt gas tanks set up for it, they use a lever to change from one to the other. You can really tell the different in temperature when they switch, using the TRO against a conventional the temps drop immediately.

If you want to purchase a copy of the video let me know and I'll order it for you.

My suggestion would be to use the Series 2000 stuff mixed at 50:1

blano · Apr 23, 2003

"Amsoil has a pretty cool video on the Series 2000 TRO, shows a chainsaw that is held wide open, then 2 differnt gas tanks set up for it, they use a lever to change from one to the other. You can really tell the different in temperature when they switch, using the TRO against a conventional the temps drop immediately."

Sounds like a test that is as valid as the four ball tests that amsoil uses to sell motor oil.

Hirev · Apr 23, 2003

Thanks for the info. I was kinda looking to find facts and numbers between the 2 of them. Not sure if I want to go this route or not. FWIIW If you change the oil mix ratio much in a 2 stroke you change the jetting in a linear way. Alot more than most people realize. It is not always easy to recover in the "needle" 1/8 to 3/4+ throttle area on a bike. I got a fair amount of time in knowing the jetting just so you know were I'am coming from.

TooSlick · Apr 23, 2003

Hirev,

Got a call two nights ago from a guy down in Birmingham, AL whose son races two strokes and was looking for an oil sponsor. He started using the Amsoil Series 2000 in kart engines that run very high, 12k/13k rpms and began mixing @ 20:1. Never could get the engine to run right and kept fouling plugs and getting deposits. After talking to Amsoil tech services, he went to a 50:1 mix ratio and got excellent results, with very little wear and clean pistons. He has continued with the 50:1 ratio in the racing bike and is very happy with the teardown results.

The Series 2000 is a newer chemistry and does seem to burn a bit cleaner than the 100:1. I've used the original 100:1 oil for about ten years in small, aircooled two stroke engines like trimmers and chainsaws and it works very well. For this application though, the S2000 mixed at 50:1 is the way I'd go.

The 100:1 provides excellent off season rust/corrosion protection - take the engine apart and there's a nice coating of oil on all the parts. I don't have enough long term experience with the Series 2000 to evaluate it in that respect, but I haven't heard of any issues from end users.

TooSlick

[ April 24, 2003, 03:06 AM: Message edited by: TooSlick ]

msparks · Apr 23, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by blano:
"Amsoil has a pretty cool video on the Series 2000 TRO, shows a chainsaw that is held wide open, then 2 differnt gas tanks set up for it, they use a lever to change from one to the other. You can really tell the different in temperature when they switch, using the TRO against a conventional the temps drop immediately."

Sounds like a test that is as valid as the four ball tests that amsoil uses to sell motor oil.

Why are you always busting my balls?

And BoB is the Oil Guy tests are any more valid?? I don't see you busting his balls?

Actually I would say it's a valid test, your using the exact same engine and switching between lubes while the **** thing is running. How can they be invald MR Scientist??

blano · Apr 24, 2003

"busting my balls?

And BoB is the Oil Guy tests are any more valid?? I don't see you busting his balls"
I have busted bobs balls also. and BTW any oil with adifferant stoichemetric ration can burn cooler or hotter. So in reality the test proves nothing. Also a oil the combusts completly would result in ahottwer engine, no?

msparks · Apr 24, 2003

Sorry was having a bad day yesterday!

Anyhow, good banter. It truley keeps it real and keeps everyone on their toes.

As far as the test. I'll try not to get to involved in this as I think I failed about every science classs I every took. Had a physics class one year and the teacher all but through me out.

blano · Apr 25, 2003

quote:

Sorry was having a bad day yesterday!

I have had a few of them lately also.

quote:

Anyhow, good banter. It truley keeps it real and keeps everyone on their toes.

As it should. I get a little irratated when I hear people spout of complete BS tests. Amsoil is a big offender in this regard as are many other companies. IMO two cycle oils are very application specific. The only way to know how a particular oil will work in your equipment is to test it. I have done this with just about every oil out there.

joee12 · Apr 25, 2003

msparks · Apr 27, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by blano:
Msparks, AIO is a tcw3 injector oil and as such isnt the correct fluid for most pre mix applications. Amsoil 100:1 may be economical at 80:1, but IMO( note I said IMO) its assinine to run that high of a ratio in a two cycle. Its not like a total loss lube system works that great to begin with. Not to mention warranty issues from running a non mfg reccomended ratio.

Good Redline Info, though who could decide which 2 stroke oil to use as they have so many!

quote:

Two-Stroke Racing Oil / Two-Stroke Kart Oil - provides cleanliness which approaches the SuperClean Two-Stroke Oil, but formulated with additional lubricity to keep even the highest-revving engines perfectly lubricated
But with Red Line Two-Stroke Racing Oil the reduced wear keeps the engine fresh and the complete absence of deposits keeps power output high. Two-Stroke Racing Oil can be used as a premix or as an injection oil.
Two-Stroke Racing Oil / Two-Stroke Kart Oil (they are both the same chemistry) - for highly modified racing engines which turn high rpms, such as racing motorcycles, karts, personal watercraft, snowmobiles, and highly modified outboards

Wouldn't this qualify as a dual designation oil as well. Just wondering how all this comes into play.

quote:

The Two-Stroke Racing Oil is used at mixtures of 24:1 to 32:1 for 9,500 rpm outboard race motors, 50:1 for high-output operation, and up to 100:1 if the engine is properly designed for reduced oil mixtures. The Two-Stroke Watercraft Oil, Two-Stroke AllSport, and Two-Stroke Smokeless can also be operated at ratios between 24:1 and 100:1, depending on the designed lubricating requirement.

[ April 28, 2003, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: msparks ]

blano · Apr 28, 2003

MSparks, I have tested Redline extensivly in the past. In toal I probaly went through 10 gallons in my snowmobile and motorcycle. I found it to burn really clean in the highly loaded snowmobile and really dirty in the mixed load dirt bike. It also offered no corrosion protection that I could see. Rusted the crank lobes on my sled and corroded the carb brass on my bike. It also attracted water right through the walls of plastic cans which resulted in congelled blobs of oil and condensate in the bottom of the can. This same thing happened in the float bowls of both vehicles.
Thats my $.2 on Redline.

blano · May 3, 2003

Most syn two cycle oils are ester based. I cant recall if I have ever seen a pao two stroke oil. Esters will take more heat,contribute to less friction, and decompose cleaner than a pao or mineral oil. Off course this is a bit of a blanket statement and I am sure Molakule could expound more.

Hirev · May 3, 2003

For pre mix 2 strokes what are some of the Pros and Cons of a Group 4 PAO VS Group 5. For Joe Average dirt bike guy who doesn't race anymore. But does ride hard part of the time. Thanks for the replys.

Hirev · May 4, 2003

I have been told by a guy on another bike forum that MX2T is a group 4 oil. Don't know myself. In looking around at 2 stroke oils it seems like the group 5s don't use ash in them. And most all the group 4s and below have a low ash for 2 stroke bikes. It sounds like low ash is good for keeping the ring(s) from sticking for an average off road rider. Bad if the octane or jetting is on the edge. 2 stroke oil in general is hard to find out non biased information.

Comments are welcome. Thanks again for the replies

Bror Jace · May 4, 2003

'I can't recall if I have ever seen a PAO two stroke oil."

I'm pretty sure I've seen at least one or two claim to be PAO (Group IV) specifically. Might've been MX2T ... but I've looked at so much manufacturer statements, claims, etc ... that I can't be positive.

--- Bror Jace

blano · May 5, 2003

Mx2t is a carboxil ester. This info is via mobils msds sheet for it. Asj is neither good or bad. The amount of just tells what kind of additive package is present. Ashless oils are used in outboards and a few other low temp applications. Low ash chemistrys are used in aircooled and high output liquid cooled applications. The average mxer should be using a low ash. i have found MX2T to be second to none for mx bike use.

[ May 05, 2003, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: blano ]

Lightman · May 20, 2003

Well maybe I'm the odd one in the bunch, but I've been running Maxima's Formula K2 Synthetic in my jetski with great results so far. I did run maxima's Castor 927 oil in my old race skis with good results also but you need really high compression and hp to burn this stuff cleanly in my experience. I ran my stock recreational jetski for 600 hours on 927 before refreshing it this past spring with new pistons and rings etc. I switched to k2 because it supposedly burns much more cleanly, as my exhaust manifold was very dirty. My race boats were always clean with the 927. Now with the stocker I get almost no smoke whatsoever with the k2, but miss the good smell of the 927!

Nothing like the smell of cam 2 and 927 in the morning!!

mcmech · May 21, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Lightman:
Nothing like the smell of cam 2 and 927 in the morning!!

If you ever come across a bottle of the old Castrol R, mix it up with some Cam 2.
I used to run that mixture @ 24:1 in a Yamaha TZ250.
Now, that is one sweet smelling exhaust.

My wife says someone should bottle that smell as a cologne and sell it to motorcyclists.....I wish.

What is the favorite 2 cycle motorcycle oil

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